Project-iM@S

THE iDOLM@STER => THE iDOLM@STER Platinum Stars => Topic started by: Naryoril on August 10, 2016, 12:47:30 pm

Title: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on August 10, 2016, 12:47:30 pm
The next DL live has been announced:

http://idolmaster.jp/blog/?p=22191 (http://idolmaster.jp/blog/?p=22191)

(http://adm.idolmaster.jp/blog/vy4dffxn2qf1/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/poster_02.jpg)


And this line from the blog
Quote
配信期間は2016年8月17日(水)~2016年8月30日(火)となりますので、お忘れなくゲットしてくださいね♪
might mean that the DL lives are only time limited to download, but once you got them you can play them as long as you want.


Edit: The more i look at it the more i think that there is no time limit whatsoever to the DL lives, even for the download. Well, apart from when they start. The 2 week time limit is just for the P drops.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: HolyAarom on August 10, 2016, 01:33:23 pm
If it's true that the DL Lives don't have a time limit, then would that mean that those late to the party still have a chance of getting the outfits at least? Those are the ones that are rewarded from the EX Clear, but accessories might be missed forever if they're pulled from the drop pool.

We'll see in a week I guess.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on August 10, 2016, 01:38:18 pm
If it's true that the DL Lives don't have a time limit, then would that mean that those late to the party still have a chance of getting the outfits at least? Those are the ones that are rewarded from the EX Clear, but accessories might be missed forever if they're pulled from the drop pool.

We'll see in a week I guess.

If they don't have a time limit that would mean that people late to the party would still be able to get everything.

But yeah, we will see in a week. I'll definitely try to get the costume by then. I don't care much about the accessories.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: darkthunder on August 10, 2016, 02:51:30 pm
Wondering how bamco will torture us this time and hooray for more free pdrop
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Hime Idol on August 11, 2016, 12:30:58 am
That means if there is no time limit I bought over $150 in p-drops for nothing because I was worried I wouldn't be able to get the DL accessories in time.  :-[ So far I've only gotten the ring and garter by dropping over 50 p-drops each time. Haven't drop anything 'naturally' yet.

I did find it weird they gave just a limited time to unlock the outfit and accessories. Would make more sense if it were just the download time and free p-drop availability that was limited.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Roswell on August 11, 2016, 02:27:03 am
The line directly underneath Iori's picture states that the DL live is NOT limited time. However the 11 free P drops are limited and you can only claim them from the 17th through the 30th.

I thought it was weird that nothing in game said anything about a deadline so I'm glad there's some clarification now.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Nakiame on August 11, 2016, 07:59:56 am
Now that I look closely to both DL lives articles (current and the next one), it is clearly stated they are not time-limited. So you'll be able to download it next month or whenever you want.
The only time-limited offer is p-drops.

So there were no need to rush...
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Roswell on August 11, 2016, 08:11:05 am
Now that I look closely to both DL lives articles (current and the next one), it is clearly stated they are not time-limited. So you'll be able to download it next month or whenever you want.
The only time-limited offer is p-drops.

So there were no need to rush...

From what I can read, the blog post for the 1st DL Live didn't mention anything about limited time or not limited time at all. It does state that the P drops are limited in the first post too so I think that's where the confusion came from.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on August 11, 2016, 08:44:49 am
and that confusion is probably why they stated it explicitly this time around
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: iTiffany21 on August 11, 2016, 02:16:40 pm
Is there a certain level requirement you need to be at to complete these lives?
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on August 11, 2016, 03:22:12 pm
Is there a certain level requirement you need to be at to complete these lives?

Not to participate them afaik, but to be able to actually beat (as in, ex clear) them, yes there is some implicit level requirement since you need to reach a high enough score.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: meichan111 on August 13, 2016, 01:50:14 pm
Thank god they aren't limited came a little late for the party so don't have high lvl idols yet so are happy to know
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Setsuna on August 16, 2016, 01:34:56 pm
There are time related drop issues which actually arise if (and we need to wait for the confirmation) the DL lives are not time limited though.

There's some math involved, but I promise, it's simple.

At the moment (DL live 1) there's currently 10 items in residence in the gold presents (If you're wondering it's the 4 accessories)

Now for catalog 1, you have a 1/10 chance of getting a specific item.


Still with me?

DL live 2 will add in 4 more accessories to the Gold drop list.

So the odds of getting as single item are now 1/14.


Okay, you ask, but wouldn't this mean that I have more chances of getting A DL live item?

Yes, until you remember one thing - You can get DOUBLES, and can do so forever. Capped an item to level 10? You'll STILL get doubles.

In short, constantly adding to the gold drop list actually makes it significantly HARDER to complete the costume collection, not easier, and this problem only compounds, increasing the difficulty by 50% each DL live.

So given how often Gold presents drop (Namely, for me, without pdrop interference I see one every 300 lives or 35 HOURS) you could be there... oh, from now to sometime before the heat death of the universe, because the odds go extensively long.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on August 16, 2016, 01:42:18 pm
afaik the special DL live items from gold presents only drop in the corresponding DL live, and the DL live only drops these items in gold presents.

So the DL lives should't influence the collection completion for the trophy at all. In fact, if you are going for the trophy, you should avoid playing the DL live more than necessary and spend your time on other events.

That said: my guess is that turning in gold cards is the same as opening a gold present. And at least with silver cards you can close and restart the game if you don't like what you got (e.g. the xp drink für 10k xp) and try again. So i assume this works with gold cards as well. So it's probably best to keep your gold cards until you only need as many s rank costumes as you can turn in with gold cards. Using reloading you can make sure you get the costume you are missing, and while this probably will take some time, it's certainly faster than hoping for the correct drop from a gold present.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Setsuna on August 16, 2016, 01:47:10 pm
afaik the special DL live items from gold presents only drop in the corresponding DL live, and the DL live only drops these items in gold presents.

So the DL lives should't influence the collection completion for the trophy at all. In fact, if you are going for the trophy, you should avoid playing the DL live more than necessary and spend your time on other events.

That said: my guess is that turning in gold cards is the same as opening a gold present. And at least with silver cards you can close and restart the game if you don't like what you got (e.g. the xp drink für 10k xp) and try again. So i assume this works with gold cards as well. So it's probably best to keep your gold cards until you only need as many s rank costumes as you can turn in with gold cards. Using reloading you can make sure you get the costume you are missing, and while this probably will take some time, it's certainly faster than hoping for the correct drop from a gold present.

The fun part? That's incorrect - I forced the DL live 1 ring to drop from the S ranked All star. Yep. it's just 'very unlikely', but nowhere close to impossible.

The gold cards have a restricting mechanic which I've extensively tested - The gold cards encompass all A and B rank items as well, and as far as I can tell (After a LOT of resets) cannot generate an item you don't actually have.

The most fun part?

I've not been able to make the gold cards generate an S rank item, after 100 attempts. (As the only costumes I'm missing that are in the general pool are (as you can guess) the S rank costumes, 100 attempts should have revealed at least ONE S rank costume, even if it's a double.)

I'm either incredibly unlucky (And computers don't work the way they should) or there's a lot of assumptions in place. If you can catch me online we can work together on this part, as I have setups ready to go to test, if you can find me out of work hours.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Roswell on August 16, 2016, 07:44:43 pm
So should P drops be saved for DL lives only? I didn't really plan on purchasing any and I'm guessing the DL lives are why they gave us free ones to begin with.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Setsuna on August 16, 2016, 11:16:25 pm
Most likely - if you're curious, it is entirely possible to use a lot of p-drops and not even get a gold present at all.

From tests I've run, (Yes, the only upside of work is pay) we found out that we can use 30 pdrops and NOT get a single gold present.

At 50 pdrops, you should always net a single gold (or at least enjoy reasonable odds). You won't get more than one though.

I haven't been game enough to try 200 (the max at producer rank 20) to see what exactly happens, but if the game won't drop more than 1 gold at a time, going past about 50 per live run would probably be wasteful.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: mallory627 on August 17, 2016, 01:42:40 am
So how many presents can we get exactly if we did P drops at about 10? Is there only a limit of amount of presents, like if you used 20 P drops you get 20 presents?
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Setsuna on August 17, 2016, 06:35:12 am
Each p-drop you use will add +1 present to the live rewards. 

Each p-drop used will also increase the likelihood that a gold present will drop.

Ex. Using 1 p-drop will add an additional present and slightly increase the odds you receive a gold present from any drops.

Using 30 will add 30 presents to the live reward and add significant chances a gold present will be in those presents.

Using 60 will add 60 presents and will nearly guarantee one gold present in that pile.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: TheBluePhone on August 18, 2016, 12:45:02 am
So, just wanted to get some clarification on something. When the DL lives initially showed up (before the one with the red dress appeared last night.), there was two. One that was a B rank live, and then the one that progressively gets harder. I cleared the B rank one, and didn't get anything and it disappeared. My friend was saying that that's how you're supposed to get the outfit to do the progressing live. Am I screwed out of an outfit now?
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on August 18, 2016, 01:32:50 am
No worries

Both DL lives have a set of progressing events, starting with D rank. if you ex clear one, it disappears and a new one of a higher rank appears. Ex clearing the C and B rank gives you a 2 copies of costume that matches the image and type of the DL live. Ex clearing the A rank will give you a matching S rank costume. The A rank stays after ex clearing it.

In addition, both DL lives also came with a B rank event which is accessible right off the bat and has nothing to do with the costume. Once you clear them (no ex clear needed) they vanish. They don't give you items as rewards, but the one from the first DL live gives you 50k money, and the one from the second DL live gives you 300k fans, and not, that's not a typo. Using a costume with +30% fans plus the glasses with +10% fans i ended up with a total fan count for that live somewhere between 800k and 900k, which is double of what i get out of an S rank all star live/medley. Personally i used that live to get a lot of fans on idols i don't want to use much, so i will have to use them less to get them to S (well, actually even A) rank.

My guess is that the accompanying B rank live for the 3rd DL live will give a lot of fans, and hopefully the one after that a lot of heart filling.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Setsuna on August 20, 2016, 03:13:15 am
I'll also note that there's an error (at least with my DL live set) which you sort of want to be aware of, as well as ANOTHER not so well known bug (Mostly cause to test it, you'd need to be willing to spend enough p-drops in one shot)

1. Although P-drops WILL boost the likelyhood a gold present will show up, it's not in fact 100%

At max producer rank (rank 20) you're allowed to use 200 p-drops at once.

Yes, I know someone who dropped enough money (About 17k worth) onto the single event. It refused to drop any gold presents. Needless to say, he quit, flat out.

2. The DL lives themselves do NOT use the normal 'present drop system'

I can confirm that I received a DL live present on a SILVER present drop, and further to the point, I also did the 2nd DL live, got a gold present and got an E costume out of it. Both I might add should be impossible according to what the game tells you.

Call it bad luck or whatever, but do that to enough people (namely lie to them, even if it could be a bug) and you'll lose the goodwill of a LOT of people, even if happens at a rate of 1 in 1000 or so.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: TheBluePhone on August 22, 2016, 05:32:13 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqbpFhsVUAArBaT.jpg)

Next DL live! This one is really cute...

Appears to start on Thursday.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Hime Idol on August 22, 2016, 06:59:34 am
The next DL already? The 2nd only been out for barely a week so far.  :o

Also I've heard conflicting things on this. Do DL Live accessories drop outside of playing the actual DL Live? Or does playing the DL Live just increase the chance slightly of the DL accessory being in a potential drop?
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: DeviantProtagonist on August 22, 2016, 08:11:20 am
Nice recolor. ::)
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: TechiP on August 22, 2016, 09:26:13 am
Wow recolor again... Even the the accesory is not interesting just like DL LIVE 2...
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Nakiame on August 22, 2016, 10:06:27 am
Wow recolor again... Even the the accesory is not interesting just like DL LIVE 2...

Yeah, who would want to buy thousands of pdrops for this shit?
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Reikuo on August 22, 2016, 10:32:21 am
Whats funny is there is no reason to buy the unique DLC outfits unless you sit around and watch S4U which just burns you out on the songs imo because the game forces you what to wear. A rank and S rank lives dont even cover half the costume types its ridiculous on that front. They need a transforming live that changes its type randomly after every clear and it cycles through all costume types, along with random stages for ranks F-S with the best fan rewards for each.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on August 22, 2016, 10:47:29 am
Wow recolor again... Even the the accesory is not interesting just like DL LIVE 2...

i prefer the looks of the DL 2 and 3 accessories over the one from DL 1.

Yeah, who would want to buy thousands of pdrops for this shit?

Sorry, but anyone who buys thousands (or even hundres, or even dozens) of pdrops for anything doesn't deserve better.


And are you guys seriously complaining about new free of charge costumes which come out on a weekly or biweekly basis? Who cares if they are recolors, nobody would complain at all if they wouldn't make any DL lives.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Setsuna on August 22, 2016, 11:44:45 am
Well, for those who don't know (or realise yet) this is how PS is designed for long play - the DL lives are content that was made earlier to encourage a more drip feed level of play - you'll need to spend actual months to get all the content, even if you go at a breakneck pace.

In theory, each DL live has its own drop list.

There are known bugs (see my posts) with the drop system though.

The big concern is that it's not known if you can get all the regular content without resorting to some degree of luck. At the moment, I can confirm that all the S accessories can be acquired by force if you don't have them by the time you reach S rank. (Each of the S rank lives will drop you one copy if you EX them).

Each idol also has a unique costume after you reach S rank which cannot be acquired (They're A ranked)

No sign if you can get any S rank costumes via a forced drop though.

I'd like to think so, because after over 1000 lives and 14 gold presents total, I'd like something that literally doesn't require two hours (I average 1 gold present per 73 lives, assuming 2 minutes of playtime, you can do the math) you're looking at sub 0.1% (and this is BEFORE you consider doubles) at a gold present.

The raw math says that unless I'm a literal NINE deviations away from the norm (Namely, the true percentage is 1%) which means I'm literally the bottom 0.0000002% of all player experiences, which would in turn suggest I'm the most unlucky Platinum Stars player on the PLANET, there's probably a good case to be made that their model made... a few undue assumptions.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Nakiame on August 22, 2016, 12:04:43 pm
I'd like to think so, because after over 1000 lives and 14 gold presents total, I'd like something that literally doesn't require two hours (I average 1 gold present per 73 lives, assuming 2 minutes of playtime, you can do the math) you're looking at sub 0.1% (and this is BEFORE you consider doubles) at a gold present.
I'm at 800 lives total mark (all types included) and got 9 gold presents total. Haven't seen anything but dupe accessories and dupe DL-live costumes so i think you're pretty lucky actually.

And don't forget to add 2 minutes of loading and skipping shit to your actual 2 min of gameplay, so you can do 12 lives per hour max (and every 12th one is an allstar medley with much longer animation sequence).
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: DeviantProtagonist on August 22, 2016, 03:49:05 pm
And are you guys seriously complaining about new free of charge costumes which come out on a weekly or biweekly basis? Who cares if they are recolors, nobody would complain at all if they wouldn't make any DL lives.

Mind your word choice. We've every right to lend criticism where it's warranted. As it stands, it's already tedious going through the motions, so what kind of an incentive is longing for something already in the game?
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on August 22, 2016, 04:18:25 pm
Mind your word choice. We've every right to lend criticism where it's warranted. As it stands, it's already tedious going through the motions, so what kind of an incentive is longing for something already in the game?

Sorry if i sounded aggressive. It's a result of an accumulation of being annoyed by a lot of stuff like this you see on the internet: people feeling entitled to getting something for free, and in a high quality, and complain about it when it isn't what they dreamed of.

And sorry, i don't really understand what you wanted to say with the last sentence. Just because something is in the game doesn't have to mean you can get it without working for it, otherwise you'd have an event that gives 10 million fans to all girls and drops all costumes at once. I agree, as for now the game feels too grindy if you want the platinum trophy, but i expect some DLC in the future to help with this issue, akin to the EX episodes from OfA. Anyway, i don't see the connection between the grindy gameplay and the complaints about the looks of the costumes/accessories you get from the DL lives. If you don't like how they look, simply don't do the DL lives for them, they are an entirely optional, free extra which nobody expected before the first DL live was announced. THAT's what i'm annoyed about: unexpectedly getting some free new costumes  and new accessories for free (especially knowing it's scamco, and even moreso knowing it's imas) and then complain about the developers being lazy because it's just a recolor or because you don't like the looks of the accessories.

Edit: just to be clear again: There are several aspects in this game that warrant complaining about, depending on what you like and how much you care about it, such as the excessive grinding, the dependance on drop luck, the lack in variety of costumes and accessories (although they all only matter if you are a completionist who wants the platinum trophy), but the looks of the extra DL live items is not among them imo.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: DeviantProtagonist on August 22, 2016, 05:31:51 pm
Considering I'm to run a catalog of the entire item library, our circumstances are different. Simply not doing DL Lives isn't an option, lest we run the risk of Namco shelving them.

It's also not so much as the recolor being lazy, but it's reflective of the effort Namco is willing to put in Platinum Stars as a whole. Obviously, this hearkens more to the game being a cash magnet, and as a result it snowballs into a questionable pile of game design. No thanks to P drops, Namco can just keep repping away with repetitive content to roll in revenue and it'll always rub me the wrong way.

No real attention to detail, nowadays.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Roswell on August 22, 2016, 07:53:31 pm
I wouldn't be complaining if the base set in game offered any semblance of variety, but as it stands, they leave a lot to be desired and so do these DL live costumes. In past games, the only way to get new costumes was paid DLC (which also included recolors), and yet I never felt the way I do now with the PS base set of costumes.

You can be happy with your free mediocre content all you want, this doesn't mean we have to be. I understand not wanting to see negative posts, but we feel this is legitimate critisicm even if your opinion differs. Why should we be complacent with what appears to be a clear downgrade from previous games and Scamco appearing to offer no real solution other than these cheap recolors and giving them more money?
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on August 22, 2016, 08:21:29 pm
The lack of variety of costumes in the base game is a legitimate complaint, i agree and i already wrote that in the previous post. But if the DL lives didn't exist, would you have demanded that they release more for free, and not just recolors but also new ones? Or would you have complained about the lack of costumes but eventually begrudgingly settled for what's in the game and available as paid dlc? And be honest to yourself here.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Roswell on August 22, 2016, 09:49:26 pm
The lack of variety of costumes in the base game is a legitimate complaint, i agree and i already wrote that in the previous post. But if the DL lives didn't exist, would you have demanded that they release more for free, and not just recolors but also new ones? Or would you have complained about the lack of costumes but eventually begrudgingly settled for what's in the game and available as paid dlc? And be honest to yourself here.

The complaint with the base game set will remain and I wouldn't have demanded them release for free, but I would want them to make the base set more diverse (which is what I want them to do whether or not DL lives exist). But why must the DL live costumes be free from criticism? I accept them for what they are too, but I do not have to be happy with them especially considering they could have been the easy remedy.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Nakiame on August 22, 2016, 10:09:23 pm
We all love im@s and would like to avoid critisizing it as much as possible, but as it stands it's really hard to keep complains to yourself.
And no, DL lives are not free. You've already paid at least 8800 yen for them.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Yukibro on August 22, 2016, 10:15:44 pm
It's also not so much as the recolor being lazy, but it's reflective of the effort Namco is willing to put in Platinum Stars as a whole. Obviously, this hearkens more to the game being a cash magnet, and as a result it snowballs into a questionable pile of game design. No thanks to P drops, Namco can just keep repping away with repetitive content to roll in revenue and it'll always rub me the wrong way.

You mean as repetitive as iM@S DLC has been? Reusing the same vocals recorded years back even today, offering recolored outfits as DLC alongside newer paid content, and otherwise recycling content when they can? Considering the similarities between 2 and OFA, you're even double-dipping there for songs or outfits to use in a rather derivative game as far as the engine goes. That's not to say that P Drops aren't more cash-grabby or questionable, but being worse doesn't mean PS introduced the idea into the series. I don't like to phrase it that way, but that's how it's been for a while, even if it at least seemed more generous before. Namco makes more money off the DLC one way or another, and they aren't entirely benevolent about it.

I wouldn't be complaining if the base set in game offered any semblance of variety, but as it stands, they leave a lot to be desired and so do these DL live costumes. In past games, the only way to get new costumes was paid DLC (which also included recolors), and yet I never felt the way I do now with the PS base set of costumes.

You can be happy with your free mediocre content all you want, this doesn't mean we have to be. I understand not wanting to see negative posts, but we feel this is legitimate critisicm even if your opinion differs. Why should we be complacent with what appears to be a clear downgrade from previous games and Scamco appearing to offer no real solution other than these cheap recolors and giving them more money?

I can't say I entirely disagree, since I think the first DL Live's outfit set some expectations that haven't been met so far (namely the fact that it was entirely original and introduced a new costume type). As far as that goes, I can see why you'd be disappointed. But if we're speaking about the lack of variety of the base costumes, that's not the fault of the DL Lives on their own. That falls under the other criticism of having such costume similarities in the first place, so while it is a problem, I feel that DL Lives are doing as much as they were advertised to do while being dragged down by other unfortunate issues we've mentioned already. I don't feel obligated to criticize the DL Live offerings beyond what I said about the first DL Live showing because at that point, I would be complaining more about P Drops and the recolors than the event itself.

I don't like seeing this as an issue of criticism validity either. You're free to see it as you want, but that applies to everyone too. And I'm not even trying to defend the issues I think the game has (and honestly, the mentioning of them is probably more redundant than the game itself :P), I just wanted to put my two cents in because I feel like the DL Lives alone aren't really the problem here all things considered.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Roswell on August 22, 2016, 11:09:29 pm
I don't like seeing this as an issue of criticism validity either. You're free to see it as you want, but that applies to everyone too. And I'm not even trying to defend the issues I think the game has (and honestly, the mentioning of them is probably more redundant than the game itself :P), I just wanted to put my two cents in because I feel like the DL Lives alone aren't really the problem here all things considered.

I just wanted to defend the right to criticize any aspect of the game, even DL lives (free or not). I don't think DL lives are problematic in theory, but the execution. I totally agree with you that the first DL live set some unrealistic expectations (unrealistic unconsidering it's Scamco) so the following recolor feel even more of a letdown. Whether or not you're happy with what they put out, we should be able to voice our satisfaction or lack thereof.

I can't even complain about the P drops since that's so in line with Namco business strats    ::)
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Setsuna on August 22, 2016, 11:14:20 pm
Actually most of my concerns have been around acquisition methods - not because the model has no place, but because of the fact they modelled it so badly, on the actual assumption we would play it for a literal infinite hours.

Or for a better perspective, the model used assumes you'll play a given live about a thousand times. EACH.

That's assuming 8 gold presents is enough to get one of every accessory.

(Mathematically it's nowhere close. You need about 16 assuming the game hasn't lied to you re: drop rates, so try closer to 1900 of the same DL live. If you're wondering, nominal drop rates are 4/6 * 3/6 * 2/6 * 1/6 as the C and the S costumes are in the drop list according to the live itself. The %s drop for each additional drop as per above because as you collect items your odds of a double increase.)

How did I draw that conclusion? That's pretty simple - I just modelled on the numbers I have to extrapolate the drop system given the numbers I have.

Amusingly, what makes this worse is the fact that 'paying your way' doesn't even work, because you're subject to some very odd design choices due to the layered very small % rates which effectively cause the cost of pdrops to go near vertical for the DL lives.

The model is dismal simply because the % drop rates are worse than most MMOs. I mean we're talking similar drop rates to Ragnarok Online, and that game was infamous for drops in the 0.01% category with 30 minute to 1 hour (to 8 hours in some cases) drop rates. Under that model (and people camping said bosses 24/7 for years) certain items (like cards at the 0.01%) category did not show up for literal YEARS on servers. From memory, I recall a certain card taking oh, about 5 years to exist once. And this with entire populations camping the poor thing on the dot every 30 minutes.

Even though the spread period is 6 times as long (30m compared to 5m) that's still roughly 10 months straight (And it's a lot more hours than 84, let me tell you).

My emphasis - our nominal calculation ended up with about 84 hours of flat out live play (assuming 5 minutes end to end per week) per live to get all 4 accessories. That's the mathematical average. When 0.01% compounded goes horribly wrong, they can go WAY outside your calculations - namely, cause there's no floor.

The previous results don't matter, meaning that if you spent 50 hours and turned up nothing (I've gone 50 hours at a time without a present dropping, let alone a gold one, so don't be surprised) the next 50 hours can turn up nothing, because previous results don't affect future performance. (It's one of the reasons why mathematically very low % odds can blow out FAR more than they should on paper. You don't learn this in basic probability, incidentally.)

Essentially 'Getting lucky' like in the platinum stars model works for a game with multiplayer aspects (like Diablo, PSO, WoW or any other MMO you can name) as you can buy, trade or downright grind your way out.

In PS, you can't buy (as the p-drops end up working mathematically against you economically due to no floors due to the drop issues I noted) and you can't trade (Or otherwise assist with most social games) as the game provides no option to do so.

Which in turn means there's only one realistic option - Grind it out. You can get back to me once cheating becomes a viable alternative.

At 84 hours of play median? You BETTER hope you're lucky, cause it's known what happens when your roughly calculated odds don't pan out that way. (Namely, the real world requires time to grind to infinity number of plays, and infinity is a very long time)

In MMOs, it's bad enough, but at least you can recruit entire guilds to help you beat said thing until the item shows up.

The closest we have in PS is to play tag team with our save file on a 24 watch system.

The best part? Those odds are calculated per live. In short? I hope you have a literal forever, because when you're done with the 1000 median plays for DL live 1, you're going to have to do it for 2, then 3....

And I personally know there's at least 12 of the things out there.

Which I suspect wasn't the original intention or design, but then again I think when they settled on this model, they forgot to account for some sort of way to compensate for the fact past performance does not influence future performance.

This in turn means the median nominal hours is actually your best case scenario, not your WORST case, and that in turn should frighten you.

For an idea, that's over 2 actual work weeks PER LIVE. (Assuming you work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week)

Guess how fast each live is being released at?

You guessed it, every 2 weeks.

In short, they are aware of the median math, and are hoping like all hell you haven't done the numbers.

I don't like the model personally (apart from having to grind through it myself) mostly cause by its very definition, it makes a huge gulf of haves and have nots with no ability to pay your way across without throwing actual thousands of dollars at it - this in turn affects MAD creation and other fan work since there's no way for Platinum Stars to know if you're a player or a creator.

In short, it's a blunt weapon in an attempt to make variable pricing, using a model that's made a few too many assumptions.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on August 22, 2016, 11:50:37 pm
I can't say I entirely disagree, since I think the first DL Live's outfit set some expectations that haven't been met so far (namely the fact that it was entirely original and introduced a new costume type). As far as that goes, I can see why you'd be disappointed. But if we're speaking about the lack of variety of the base costumes, that's not the fault of the DL Lives on their own. That falls under the other criticism of having such costume similarities in the first place, so while it is a problem, I feel that DL Lives are doing as much as they were advertised to do while being dragged down by other unfortunate issues we've mentioned already. I don't feel obligated to criticize the DL Live offerings beyond what I said about the first DL Live showing because at that point, I would be complaining more about P Drops and the recolors than the event itself.

This.

Imo all these complaints about the DL lives, their existence at all and the original costume from the first DL live is a typical case of "give them a finger and they'll take the whole hand". Imo it's not that the first DL live set unrealistic expectations, it's rather that people jumped to unrealistic conclusions. The second DL live came 2 weeks after the first, the 3rd only 1 week after the 2nd. Now people are complaining about "yet another recolor" for the 3rd, where as i bet 90% didn't expect there even BEING a 3rd DL live so soon.

Personally my current speculation about DL lives is that there will be one with an original costume for every catalog, which means one every month. If my guess is right it will mean that we will have the same amount of unique costumes in platinum stars as we have in im@s 2/ofa in 7/8 months (could be the other way around). Even if it's a new costume every 2 months we'll have almost as many as im@s 2/ofa in a year.

And again: i agree, there are several things to complain about in this game, but complaining about what we get for the DL lives is just... On top of that i still expect them to release meatier dlc further down the line, akin to the ex episodes in ofa, which could help to alleviate a lot of the other issues.

And honestly in a lot of the criticism there is based on double standards. Technically the game is over after the extreme live, and up to that point, there is no grinding, the randomness of the rewards doesn't really matter and the low variety in costumes isn't perceived as such because you constantly keep changing to better costumes up to that point. In OfA people were complaining about "why is there not trophy to get to 5 hearts" "why is there no trophy to reach max level" "why is there no trophy to get all songs to gold" and so on. Namco listened and added such trophies, and now people are complaining about the grinding they have to do to get them... You can't do it right for everyone.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: DeviantProtagonist on August 23, 2016, 12:36:34 am
I like to think we're allowed to say bad things of what we've reservations with. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As it stands, this model is indeed different to how content was distributed in iM@S2 and OfA -- even while Mobage had done this similar, PS is a major console release. I'm very well aware it's Namco, but this is especially scummy when you consider probabilites.

I mean, nobody can tell me to not feel sour as the lack of floor percentages go. I also feel that the first DL Live has indeed set unrealistic expectations, since Namco marketed it as a one-time-shot for something fancy. Something nobody else could probably get.

Kind of misleading from that point, if you ask me.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on August 23, 2016, 01:10:45 am
I also feel that the first DL Live has indeed set unrealistic expectations, since Namco marketed it as a one-time-shot for something fancy. Something nobody else could probably get.

Kind of misleading from that point, if you ask me.

It was? Where? You are the first person i've seen saying that they thought the first DL live was the only one. Everyone else was expecting the DL lives to continue on a regular basis, maybe only one per month, but where is the downside of having 3 a month (unless you want every last item in the game for some reason)? From what i have seen most people were thinking "so they want to keep people playing this game for a long time by using the DL lives" when they read about the first one.

I think you were just reading/interpreting things incorrectly and jumped to conclusions.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Setsuna on August 23, 2016, 01:43:42 am
It was? Where? You are the first person i've seen saying that they thought the first DL live was the only one. Everyone else was expecting the DL lives to continue on a regular basis, maybe only one per month, but where is the downside of having 3 a month (unless you want every last item in the game for some reason)? From what i have seen most people were thinking "so they want to keep people playing this game for a long time by using the DL lives" when they read about the first one.

I think you were just reading/interpreting things incorrectly and jumped to conclusions.

You aren't helping your case.

I'll name some very valid reasons why you'd want the entire available item set.

Cataloging (Which is what I do, but fortunately I'm more or less it), Video creation, M@D/Mixtape creation, and other derivative works.

You know, the little things that keep the presence of im@s on niconico a thing. Which in turn drives the entire fanbase.

How DL lives are going to pan out by math is a very important point, and as people do the math (even subconsciously or by instinct) a LOT of them are going to abandon any attempt of using PS as part of their production, even though by any definition of the word, PS is a significant improvement over OFA!

Like I said, based off the math and what data I can collect, short of you winning the lottery, you're expected to do 84 hours of live play PER DL live to stand even odds on getting all the accessories.

You could argue you can cherry pick (not all accessories are the same of course) but you STILL have to play the gauntlet - you can't pick which accessories you GET FIRST! If there is, please let us know, because any attempts to rig the present drops would be VERY useful right now.

If your counter argument is 'Well, you can pay for p-drops to do that' the counter reply is 'No you can't, because even if you skip the step of making a gold present drop, you are running a 1/6 (Assuming you don't get glitched and get a random E-F costume or accessory) chance of getting one, because you cannot force more than 1 gold present drop even IF you use 200 p-drops (Which is I might add 60x 3 at 5k yen each + we'll say 20 x1 at say 1 for 2k yen) to do so!

(And to add further insult to injury, it's entirely possible (if relatively unlikely) that 200 p-drops (Which is the maximum) will result in NO gold present dropping period.)

The game (as it isn't an artificial AI) can't tell if you're in it for MAD, cataloging, or just to enjoy the selection, which means it can't pick who to grace with luck (and I mean it in the absolute sense of the word) because of the lack of a floor (because previous performance does not affect future performance).

In short?

Decent design - incredibly bad execution, because they assumed the fanbase would play the game to infinity lives. It's incredibly bad design, because even the likes of ACTUAL slot machines (Which I might add are gambling in every sense of the world) are actually coded to be within 0.0001% within a million spins (depending where in the world you are) with a predefined payout percentage.

That's never going to happen, and unlike actual slot machines (or your average MMO) your average PS player isn't going to get remotely close to infinity (or even a thousand or so) lives in 6 months, and I'd say the median won't even do more than a few hundred.

In short? One standard deviation of unlucky is going to adversely affect the quality of gameplay. Your rough gameplay times to get one DL live unlocked will increase by roughly 33% (on a 84 hour expected, that's only another what, 28 hours of gameplay.)

Sounds okay, until you realise that one deviation is roughly 25% of the entire fanbase by definition of statistics. The second deviation will encompass about 35% or so.

In short? If I'm the median (as based off my numbers) you're expected to do 100 hours of lives to unlock just one of the DL lives' accessory set if you fall into that band..

Don't know about you, but if I heard 100 hours of im@s songs, I don't want to do it in all in one sitting, without eating, sleeping or doing anything else.

Of course if you don't do it all in one sitting (Like anyone who needs sleep, for instance doesn't) you're expected to do so over say a few months.

Then you realize that there's another 11 of them you need to do it for.

Yeah, I think they vastly overshot the expectations of anything close to 'complete' to some number they didn't really think about, probably because they didn't read the number out loud and actually thought about what that actually requires.

Which in turn actually hurts the derivative works, which in turn hurts its niconico presence and fan participation.

Basically, you're looking at it from a purely consumptive, as opposed to derivative, perspective. Derivative works is where the design has knock on consequences, and due to how it works, well, you can't pick who gets lucky and who doesn't, and expecting them all to spend hundreds of thousands of yen on something on bad odds of happening? (And they're not good, due to the aforementioned DL live bug)

Most of them will quit, because most of them (and us) don't have an expectation of winning the lottery.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Reikuo on August 23, 2016, 02:38:53 am
They definitely dropped the ball on this IMO. Its just bad decision on top of bad decision.

Drop rates are classic MMO level of drop, the drop rates are absolutely atrocious we all know that one.

The lives that you end up farming at A rank to get everyone to S all use the same 2-3 types of outfit, your forced to either be efficient and do the same live with the same outfit over and over alongside seeing the same stage over and over or be inefficient, further the already extremely brutal grind and farm lives of the costume type you want to see and get very little fans.

Gold Boxes that drop from DL lives do not contain the base game gold box drops making it very punishing just to get an accessory you like.

There is no reason to buy the DLC outfits unless your big into S4U, as the game picks your outfit for you so why spend 1500 yen per outfit?

Comparing this to a slot machine is not really a good comparison, because if you roll triple 7's on a slot machine your getting your payout. When you see a gold box pop up not only could it have the S rank accessory's that you are guaranteed to get in S rank, but it could just be a double of a S rank outfit you already have.

As stated earlier in the thread, hyper fans might put up with the state of this game but any casual fan of the genre or just casual fan in general is not going to farm for ages for drops. The songs are old, the characters are established, they had one job and that was to make costumes for them to wear and they just totally botched that aspect of the game. I dont think I have ever not worn the tiara on the head. Its just sad.


My personal ideas for a fix with minimal effort on Namcos part:
Overall increased drop rates
Gold tickets should have a chance to reward S rank outfits
A Live for ranks F-S that has randomized stages and requests a different random outfit type each time you complete it, with no cool/cute/cosmic/clever secondary typing. Or it could just even be typeless. This Live will reward the most fans out of all the lives in that rank.

Fixes with more work required:
Overall increased drop rates, but to keep heavy farmers/pdrop users interested there should be hyper ultra rare outfits and accessory's with nasty drop rates.
Small set of outfits/accessory's added to the store ranging from 500k to 5million. Money feels totally useless in this, in addition getting duplicates to sell would not seem quite as shitty as it does now.
New outfits to be worn by the idols in the menus, either sold in the shop or rare drops

Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: DeathStrikr on August 23, 2016, 03:07:02 am
Are the drop rates for the DL Lives lower than normal lives or have I just been getting lucky with normal lives?
I've done ~600 regular lives and haven't really had any issues with drops. I get silver presents pretty frequently and have gotten around 15 gold presents total (Just missing the leg accessory at this point).
Only thing is I am on a US account so I can't use P-Drops, though I'm not sure if that factors in.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Setsuna on August 23, 2016, 03:16:06 am
Are the drop rates for the DL Lives lower than normal lives or have I just been getting lucky with normal lives?
I've done ~600 regular lives and haven't really had any issues with drops. I get silver presents pretty frequently and have gotten around 15 gold presents total (Just missing the leg accessory at this point).
Only thing is I am on a US account so I can't use P-Drops, though I'm not sure if that factors in.

I'd kill for your luck. We're working on a particularly small sample size, (There's not that many people playing Platinum Stars, basically) but you've gotten more in 600 lives than I've managed over the course of roughly twice that. This includes 2 gold presents I forced out via p-drop use.

Also, DL live drops use a different drop table (Which is not shown). It's known at this point that any of the 6 (The S rank, the C rank, and any of the 4 accessories) can show up, and it's not known if it's a glitch or not, but you can turn up any of the F or E costumes out of a gold present too.

None of the regular gold present items will show if you're doing the DL live. All the silver ones use the regular drop system, but apparently they added the chance (might have glitched) where you can get the DL live accessories out of a silver present.

It could be that there's a region compensation - we were speculating that, but it's very difficult to measure, mostly cause we'd need people to sacrifice huge amounts of time to test the theory.

(Namely, JP, KR and China (When China releases) accounts have lower drop rates to drive p-drop purchases.)
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: DeathStrikr on August 23, 2016, 03:28:52 am
I'd kill for your luck. We're working on a particularly small sample size, (There's not that many people playing Platinum Stars, basically) but you've gotten more in 600 lives than I've managed over the course of roughly twice that. This includes 2 gold presents I forced out via p-drop use.

Also, DL live drops use a different drop table (Which is not shown). It's known at this point that any of the 6 (The S rank, the C rank, and any of the 4 accessories) can show up, and it's not known if it's a glitch or not, but you can turn up any of the F or E costumes out of a gold present too.

None of the regular gold present items will show if you're doing the DL live. All the silver ones use the regular drop system, but apparently they added the chance (might have glitched) where you can get the DL live accessories out of a silver present.

It could be that there's a region compensation - we were speculating that, but it's very difficult to measure, mostly cause we'd need people to sacrifice huge amounts of time to test the theory.

(Namely, JP, KR and China (When China releases) accounts have lower drop rates to drive p-drop purchases.)

Hm, I'll try just playing the DL lives from now on and see if I get different drop rates. Was avoiding it before because I wanted the other s rank costumes first.
Still ways away from grinding everyone to S Rank, so I'll probably have a large sample size of lives by the end of it.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on August 23, 2016, 07:27:50 am
@setsuna: all that is completely irrelevant if you don't want to make a catalog, or make videos with every possible item out there. How many people does that concern? Most probably less than 1%, probably even less than 0.1%

@reikuo: all this, while valid, has nothing to do with the DL lives, or more precisely whether the items you get from DL lives are recolors or not. In fact the DL lives help with what you are saying by adding more A rank lives with probably all different costume requirements.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: DeviantProtagonist on August 23, 2016, 08:07:09 am
@setsuna: all that is completely irrelevant if you don't want to make a catalog, or make videos with every possible item out there. How many people does that concern? Most probably less than 1%, probably even less than 0.1%

God damn, you're rude.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on August 23, 2016, 08:40:58 am
God damn, you're rude.

It's simply stating the truth. Or are you saying that because of less than 1% of the players, who want to do stuff for people who make unreasonable requests (which is what requesting videos with the DL live accessories is), the other 99% should get less costumes, accessories and ingame events, in other words, less DL lives, or even better for that 1%, no DL lives at all?
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Setsuna on August 23, 2016, 08:52:42 am
@setsuna: all that is completely irrelevant if you don't want to make a catalog, or make videos with every possible item out there. How many people does that concern? Most probably less than 1%, probably even less than 0.1%

@reikuo: all this, while valid, has nothing to do with the DL lives, or more precisely whether the items you get from DL lives are recolors or not. In fact the DL lives help with what you are saying by adding more A rank lives with probably all different costume requirements.

And if that's your statement, you didn't actually read more than a few words of what I said.

From what I can tell, your statement is as follows:

"All those people on nico who create M@Ds, derivative content, fanfiction, pictures? Screw them, they don't matter. My perspective matters more than all those people who make things."

"Also 'screw anyone outside my 66% You're unlucky and bad, and you deserve it, because the system is fine for me."

Thank you for making the declaration, particularly without addressing how the numbers affect people not you.


It also shows a HUGE amount of ignorance on your half, because you don't understand basic math, let alone actual probability, and it shows a lack of perspective, because you just demonstrated you have no idea what 1200 gaming hours will end up looking like (As I'm aware there's 12 DL lives). Even 600 (Which would net you just HALF the DL live content, if that) is utterly insane for a benchmark.

If you honestly believe your average im@s fan is going to run 600 hours on lives (at 12 lives per hour, which is oh, about 7200 individual songs which is I think safely 'Holy crap that's a lot of songs on repeat') over the course of the lifetime of PS (or even within a year) to get a median 50% of the DL live content, I don't know what your baseline is. 600 hours assumes you're playing for just under 2 HOURS A DAY, EVERY DAY FOR A YEAR, rain, hail, shine, work, classes, acts of god or anything else. (To be precise, you're playing ~ 98 minutes, or 19 songs a DAY, assuming each one took 5 minutes from week start to week end.)

Let those numbers sink in. You play the game for 2 hours a day, every day, and you stand a 66% chance of getting HALF the content from the DL lives (and from my intel there's at least 12 of them.)

You'd need to double that to get 66% odds to get all the DL lives in a year. That isn't a guarantee, but the bet you won't fall more than one standard deviation from unlucky.


Since you didn't even consider the numbers, I've provided some perspective for you. I hope I didn't make your dismissive statement look completely ludicrous in the process.

You've already given a middle finger to 33% of the people that play Platinum Stars. We appreciate the indifference and arrogance you've demonstrated towards us.

I guess if we just so happen to not be lucky, we're expected to pay more for the same material? Those people just need to get on your level? Get good?


Now, let's go further.

So how much of the free content are we supposed to experience anyway? 30% 40% 50%?

THAT is the rough estimate of the median content people will get. That's the C costume, the S costume (if they get that far, depending if you have end game idols or not, well...) and 1 accessory. If you have 2, you're lucky.

So is your answer 'Well, you can have it free, but only some of it?'

Thanks for letting the REST of us (who may not ever devote 20+ hours on a DL live. let alone the median of 80!) know that you hate all but the elite lucky, who will be able to get 2 or more of the accessories (without doubling up remember, because getting an item doesn't mean you can't get it AGAIN!) within the <20 hour window per DL live.

I'll help you with the score keeping - You've just stuck up the middle finger and told them they don't matter to roughly 75% of the ENTIRE Platinum Stars Player Base.

But that's okay. You're happy with it, so basically everyone else is wrong right?


Now since you don't understand the numbers or how they panned out, I'm sure you're just comfortable in explaining to people who make video 'Well, you don't need everything after all, I mean 50/50 is enough to make your videos. You'll just be fine."

So what happens if a creator wanted to make a video using the cat ears of DL Live catalog 1, and his 40% ended up being the foot accessory?

"Oh well, bad luck to him? His video won't matter."

"What about the guy who wanted to use the bat wings and one of the costumes to do a vampire MAD? He got the ears and the ring. He's gotten enough content."

"He's just bad for not playing it enough. He's not in the lucky 25%"

So those videos will just have to be delayed until they're good enough to turn up the required DL item (Which I might add is a gold present at ~1/7, no problem)

... Just what do you think drives part of the fanbase? REALLY?


Apparently unless you're good enough to land what you want, when you want it, we have no rights to discuss OR criticize the model used. (Like I said, the problem isn't the model per se, but the assumptions behind the model. When you look at the numbers, NBEI's assumptions are downright SCARY. Expectations of 4 hours a day for a YEAR for a single player video game is... uh, you're not playing a game at that point, you're demanding mastery of a skill.)

Regardless, I'll pass on the message to a few of the creators at NND, and I'll let them consider your statement. They might be a while of course, so you might have the time to craft an apology if you're fast enough. Or at least a retraction, because they might be collectively upset at you SPECIFICALLY for being such a bonehead and waving them all off.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on August 23, 2016, 09:15:43 am
setsuna, all your calculations are based on one mistake and let's keep it mathematical since you seem to like it so much:

Let's say, someone wants to make a video with all items from a DL live. Let's say, that someone is so impossibly lucky that he gets all the items with just 4 lives, which is theoretically possible, but the probability of that happening is almost 0. Now let's assume that DL live didn't exist, the probability of being able to make that video is exactly 0, even with investing hundreds of hours.

If there never were DL lives to begin with, you wouldn't be complaining about this right now, you are complaining about getting more possibilities for your videos, even if this possibility is incredibly low. And 2 out of the 6 items are even guaranteed after 4 lives.

And again: are you guys telling me that because of the people who want to make videos with items that wouldn't exist at all otherwise, the vast majority of people who doesn't want to make these videos should not get the DL lives?

And btw: you are way way luckier than i am with your drops, i'd love to have so much luck with getting gold drops as you do, from what you wrote (16 presents with 1000 lives) you got 3 times as many as i did (2 out of 450 lives).

Edit: Just to be clear: I completely agree that the drops rates are way too low and that i don't like the method the DL live accessories are delivered at all, but it doesn't change the fact that the DL lives are content that otherwise would be missing completely, and i'd rather take the 33% of it (2 guaranteed out of 6 items) than 0% of it if they didn't exist at all. Are the video creating people different, would they rather have 0% than 33%?
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Setsuna on August 23, 2016, 10:21:06 am
setsuna, all your calculations are based on one mistake and let's keep it mathematical since you seem to like it so much:

Let's say, someone wants to make a video with all items from a DL live. Let's say, that someone is so impossibly lucky that he gets all the items with just 4 lives, which is theoretically possible, but the probability of that happening is almost 0. Now let's assume that DL live didn't exist, the probability of being able to make that video is exactly 0, even with investing hundreds of hours.

If there never were DL lives to begin with, you wouldn't be complaining about this right now, you are complaining about getting more possibilities for your videos, even if this possibility is incredibly low. And 2 out of the 6 items are even guaranteed after 4 lives.

And again: are you guys telling me that because of the people who want to make videos with items that wouldn't exist at all otherwise, the vast majority of people who doesn't want to make these videos should not get the DL lives?

And btw: you are way way luckier than i am with your drops, i'd love to have so much luck with getting gold drops as you do, from what you wrote (16 presents with 1000 lives) you got 3 times as many as i did (2 out of 450 lives).

Edit: Just to be clear: I completely agree that the drops rates are way too low and that i don't like the method the DL live accessories are delivered at all, but it doesn't change the fact that the DL lives are content that otherwise would be missing completely, and i'd rather take the 33% of it (2 guaranteed out of 6 items) than 0% of it if they didn't exist at all.

Nice try except that we're not dealing in the maybe, we're dealing with the now. You can't strawman the 'But if we didn't get the DL Lives' to ME in particular, because I already knew about them six months prior to the game's release, and was already enacting plans AROUND these lives with internal information.

There's 3 DL lives activated. There's another 9 scheduled. THIS is the reality we're dealing with (And yes, the idea was planned. I was warned about it, although the version they ran with was significantly blunted - originally, they were supposed to be on rotation in 2 week periods, to drive p-drop sales. They balked once they saw the backlash. (There's a reason why there's a warning that the lives may disappear without notice in that blog. It's an internal matter with NBEI.)

And yes, the data's on disc with remote activation on PSN. It's been part of the design for months. If you're bored and want to test it, just disconnect your PS4 from the internet. Unless they patched it recently, you'll find that the DL live presents won't work even if you do a DL live and you'll draw from the regular gold present pool instead. (It might take you a while to test it though, since you're not allowed to spend p-drops while disconnected from PSN. On release, the game would actually disable DL Live 1 from being accessed at all if you didn't connect within a day or so.)

You can't cheat this system though, as it won't accept any time unless it's sent through PSN (as it grabs the JP Tokyo server's clock upon running any live as part of the p-drops check) although if you could theoretically spoof the PSN clock, you could actually force the other 9 lives (or at least the 9 I'm AWARE of) from the game disc to run immediately.

In short? You can't put the theoretical of 'Well if the DL lives didn't exist we wouldn't have any content...' only because this was part of the Platinum Stars DESIGN. In short, they made a concerted effort to extend the length of the game.

As I said, the idea was sound, the execution was poor because of several major baseline assumptions and a failure to understand what happens with low % odds without a floor put into place.


And I also addressed the numbers. There's a flaw with yours:

You know those two costumes (The C and the S costumes)? They're in the GOLD present cycle for the DL Live. You get a flat 1/6 (1/7 with the E/F costume bug, although it's not known if they occupy more than one additional slot, and I've received one of 3 different ones, so it could actually shoot out to 1/10) to receive a specific DL live accessory.

That's after the odds on getting a gold present to drop, which is governed by the % chance a major appeal note will be registered during a live performance.

It is common (and it's happened to me THREE TIMES, 2 S ranks and a C) to get a costume associated with the DL live. You in fact can get the DL live's S BEFORE you complete DL Live part 4, and ironically, you can even get it before part 1 even if you fail part 1 due to insufficient score (Usually helped by using p-drops to artificially boost the rate of big appeals), meaning if you're lucky enough (or paid enough), you don't have to suffer the penalty for more than one attempt, and the DL live becomes trivial as you have the required costume.

Of course you could end up with 3 of the costume, and NO accessories after 3 gold presents. I guess it sucks to be you if that happens.


You didn't read that bit in the earlier responses, because if you did, you'd have tried to address those notes.

And your notes also show a demonstrated lack of understanding of statistics. I talk in Standard Deviations (Namely an accepted base + rough estimates of what would be considered well outside the median) because there is NO WAY to control 'who gets lucky and who gets shafted'

Someone out there is statistically going to do the near impossible.

Someone ELSE out there is also going to do the other end of the near impossible.

Here's the flaw of your argument when you claim it doesn't matter - Someone who made videos for OfA. im@s2, im@s 1/L4U, SP, Arcade, DS or anything else doesn't get to pick WHICH END they end at. It's a black box, and they can end up anywhere.

If we could, we'd try our damned hardest to PICK the winning end of the extreme, but alas, we can't. Other forces (namely the PS4's seed, time of day we made the save, producer name, PSN account name and a raft of other stuff) will determine that, and although we can alter the odds very slightly, we don't know HOW to (because we aren't told what affects the seeds that influence the appeals in game to give big appeals on any given note to get enough to force a gold present to drop) so most of it is as blind luck as we can make it, and whatever NBEI's baseline is.


As I said, the problem with the design is mostly the numbers.

The problem isn't the model per se - it's the fact the numbers didn't come with a floor. There's a few ways to address the lack of a floor (Such as PRNG where all misses will increment the chance up for a future hit until it hits, then reset again upon a hit back to its base) but they're not present for now.

Either we accept that they forgot to insert a floor or we have to accept their assumptions when making their model - That they really DO want us playing 4 hours a day for an ENTIRE YEAR to stand roughly 66% chance to get all the DL items.

Think about that for a moment.

28 hours a WEEK.

That's easily most casual jobs. Heck, it's close to what I'm working for at the moment.

You have got to be kidding that's a good assumptive baseline. For something you've been told is free, and you're spending enough hours to call it a job. For a ~66% chance to experience all the content.

For an idea, BLIZZARD don't count on you playing 4 hours a day every day (Tuesday Maintenance for starters) for dailies. They model on from my discussions about 2h30m. (2 hours to complete dailies, 30 minutes for other stuff, not including Raids etc)

Let me emphasize again - Blizzard, you know the guys who made WoW and would presumably know more about MMOs and long play better than either of us just due to sheer experience modeled their MMO around an expectation that 'daily tasks' are at MOST 2 hours and 30 minutes.

Even mobages in Asia don't count on 3 hours of game time over a course of the day without significant AP/energy expenditure, and they're social games closer to Platinum Stars' base design. You get whales who will spend for more energy/AP, but the base model? God no.

There's a significant amount of fudge factor (Cause I'm collecting data from all the people I know who play so my data is not going to be more than a spitball) but 4 hours a day, every day for a year? That's 'You're playing a Korean MMORPG' territory.

Applied to a SINGLE PLAYER GAME with very little interaction with the outer world.


If you don't see the actual absurdity involved in the above statement, let's put a bit MORE perspective. (or at the very least, can I have some of whatever you're smoking?)

If this sort of time was put into League of Legends, DotA Counterstrike, or any other multiplayer vs game, you'd be putting in this sort of time and you'd be expected to be in the top 5% of the playerbase by the other end of the year.

If this was a MMORPG, you would be expected to after all the hours, be in a high end guild, and running end game content.

Hell, if you put this level of practice into Project Diva, you should be able to Perfect a few extreme songs.

If you're expecting THAT profile out of a single player game and believe more than a tiny fraction would actually complete the profile, you have to be an incredibly patient gamer and believe everyone else is like you, or certifiably insane or at least a very, VERY persistent bastard/bitch and believe everyone else is like you.

Even the likes of Xenogears or other megalong jRPGs wouldn't break 150 hours to get every last bit of content.

To expect 300-400 hours as a norm to get 50% of the released content?

Yeah, you might see there's a bit of a problem with the design. As I said, the design is fine - it's the numbers IN that assumption which are completely shot.

(I'd argue that 300-400 hours should be what's expected to 100% the content, tops (Namely, there should be actual catchalls preventing you from missing content at that point). You're already risking sanity and brand saturation and lack of future positive response for running a game primarily about MUSIC that long.

But you're telling me that the model is fine for people listening to say a 20 large, maybe 40 (If we include all DLC) in a loop (assuming they play each song in sequence) 72000 times?

Or more accurately 1800 times EACH? Roughly 67.5 hours of each song repeatedly?

Like I said, you have no appreciation about what the numbers MEAN, which makes your statements a flat out insult to a LOT of people.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on August 23, 2016, 11:37:17 am
I doubt your claim that the DL lives are on disc is correct, since at least DL live 1 doesn't work without catalog 1, you can select the event, but then you get a prompt to download the catalog first. So i think it's fair to assume they are part of the catalog.

But let's assume your claim is correct, they are all already on the disc. Let's assume the alternative to the DL lives is not "not having these items at all". What do you propose then? What would be the alternative to distributing the items from the DL lives? Since it's about you complaining about the DL lives, we are not talking about the general method of acquiring items by low probability drops (where if fully agree that the system is stupid the way it is implemented) and you are not allowed to change that. If all the lives and its items already were on disc, how would you want to get these items? Add them all and into the normal gold present pool? That would make getting all items even more difficult due to doubles since you can't just focus on the sub-pool where you are still missing items. Or keep them as is, but having them all available right of the bat? That doesn't change anything.

So you claim the alternative to the DL lives is not "not having them", what would your better alternative be then? Remember, we are talking about DL lives here, not about the base mechanics of the game.

Oh, and btw: i'm the one insulting people?

or at the very least, can I have some of whatever you're smoking?

Let's keep it civil here please.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Setsuna on August 23, 2016, 12:06:18 pm
You are strawman arguing and you know it. I have stated solutions, and your demand to 'answer the question' shows you actually believe the base premises that NBEI have made, or you do not (or do not WANT TO) understand the actual problem.

One shows arrogance. The other shows ignorance. Which one would you like me to expose?

For one, I'm going to make it very clear (As I have several posts in a row) the problem isn't the DL lives, it is the model which the drop system is designed off.

The DL live system would work fine (for various definitions of fine, I suppose but that's a matter of modelling), but the base assumptions that they used are either flawed (namely, they assumed that the real life spread would be far less than they ended up being) or they really wanted to go in for the long haul (namely that 2-4 hours a day, every day for a year for 50/100% completion at roughly 66%)

The first is a probability oversight and can be corrected by increasing the rate and introducing a present drop floor. The second is scary, and needs to be corrected by reevaluating what the expected PS player would actually be DOING over the course of six months or a year, then adjusting the drop rates so they reasonably match the actual expected within a deviation or two.

If you attempt to straw man the argument again, (Cause this is already the second time in as many posts AFTER pushing forward two posts of insults) you've demonstrated that you're not actually interested in a discussion and are trying to push a narrative without an iota of respect, and you will be given the amount of respect as you are due.

You can keep the DL live system as is, actually, if you modelled completion to something relatively SANE. 80 hours or more PER EVENT is not sane by any measure, and you know it, because you haven't attempted to defend that point.

Don't push your luck further.

Seriously, if you're going to claim moral high ground, could you at least check it's outside of artillery range FIRST?
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on August 23, 2016, 01:07:18 pm
Ah, so we actually agree, you also say the DL lives are not an issue, it's a problem in the base mechanics. I was ALWAYS talking about just the DL lives, i wrote it severeal times, i also wrote several times that the low probability percentage item distribution sucks in my optionon and is legitemately criticized, but that has nothing to do with how many DL lives there are and if the items from the DL lives are recolors or not. The thread is called "DL lives", if you want to discuss the fundamental problem of the presents system, that should be done in a different thread.

That's also why i never defended the point of needing to spend a lot of time to get all items, because i completely agree with you. My point was always that having the DL lives as they are now, is the best method i can think of as long as nothing is changed in the base mechanics of the item distribution. The alternatives, namely having everything in one pool, or not having them at all, are both worse for people who want to have every single item to make videos. And for people who don't need all the DL live accessories, having more DL lives doesn't have any drawbacks at all.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Setsuna on August 23, 2016, 01:52:20 pm
Ah, so we actually agree, you also say the DL lives are not an issue, it's a problem in the base mechanics. I was ALWAYS talking about just the DL lives, i wrote it severeal times, i also wrote several times that the low probability percentage item distribution sucks in my optionon and is legitemately criticized, but that has nothing to do with how many DL lives there are and if the items from the DL lives are recolors or not. The thread is called "DL lives", if you want to discuss the fundamental problem of the presents system, that should be done in a different thread.

That's also why i never defended the point of needing to spend a lot of time to get all items, because i completely agree with you. My point was always that having the DL lives as they are now, is the best method i can think of as long as nothing is changed in the base mechanics of the item distribution. The alternatives, namely having everything in one pool, or not having them at all, are both worse for people who want to have every single item to make videos. And for people who don't need all the DL live accessories, having more DL lives doesn't have any drawbacks at all.

Problem is that the current existence of the DL lives causes SIGNIFICANT issues with the longevity and viability of the game.

Essentially you're saying 'something is better than nothing'.

Not always.

Present a mountain that says 'If you crawl another 80 hours, you MAY get more options' after presenting another TWO mountains with the exact same premise, and you WILL lose people who will straight up go 'You know what? Screw this. I've better things to do apart from beat my head against a DL live'.

You want to scare someone in that scenario to quit? You show them ANOTHER mountain of optional content and go 'Well, if you spend 70 hours, you might turn up everything. Allegedly.'

In fact I'm talking with three people who have flat out said 'What's the point of playing the game at ALL?' and have flat out quit. The DL live mountains have exposed the rest of the game's issues, because the curves are easily calculated.

As I'd quote from one person:

'ok, now i'm looking into a way to automate this shit. 200 lives - 0 gold drop in a row is just fucking too much.'


Basically in our current iteration, it might actually pay dividends if they STOPPED releasing lives until either of the solutions I proposed were implemented, then carefully present in a way where the mountain that WILL be DL Live 4 isn't nearly as high, and the previous lives got their mountain size reduced accordingly.

Perception is reality, and right now, the DL lives are perceived as a massive problem. They're symptoms of a much deeper problem, but for those who are playing the lives and/or seeing someone else playing them, they ARE the problem.

Cause let's face it. 80+ hours for 66% chance to get the 4 DL accessories is downright inane. That's what everyone's seeing, and that's frankly the truth of the matter as far as we can determine.

So the problem with the core systems IS the DL live's problem, because they're the point where they're most clearly exposed - unlike the regular game, there's no 'catch all' where you can secure items normally exclusive to gold presents via a forced live drop (unlike say the S rank accessories, which at S rank have a live that will FORCIBLY drop 2 of them if you EX, regardless if you had any luck prior. I think the S rank costumes also get a similar catch all once you get certain idols to S rank).

The fact the accessories in a DL live DON'T get a forced drop means the drop system gets exposed, and well, you get to find out the math. The hard way, and so consequently DL lives ARE part of the problem, even though they aren't the CAUSE of the problem, and consequently why the core game mechanics matter so much as part of the DL live.

You can't separate the two, because DL lives don't WORK because the main system doesn't, and the main system's flaws show most clearly BECAUSE the DL lives are badly designed for the model used for the main game.


One solution may be to allow a live to show up at 120 repeats which will forcibly drop (at EX clear) a special present/card/item which will randomly spawn any ONE of the accessories which you don't have already. (If you already have all 4, you can't use the item, and can sell it for some small amount of money, but this would assume you want copies for levelling)

This would put the play ceiling at 600 lives (or roughly 50 hours of gameplay) as an absolute CAP.

50 hours is STILL a lot of time, but pdrops/luck etc would reduce this significantly, meaning natural luck helps, and p-drops still have significant value (So still works as a microtransaction, for people who don't want to do the live up to 600 times). Basically the 50 hours would be a hard cap, and would be the absolutely worst case scenario.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on August 23, 2016, 02:19:04 pm
So you are saying with the system as it is, you'd rather have less items in the game than more. On the other hand a lot of people are complaining that there are not enough costume and accessories in the game as is.

And those people quitting, how much time have they put into the game? Probably more than enough so you can say they got their money's worth of playtime out of the game. And i think it would be unfair to stop delivering new items to everyone (2 are guaranteed), just because some people absolutely want absolutely everything (whatever the reason is) and would have to put way way too much time into getting them and get discouraged because they see more work coming their way very quickly.

Yes, guaranteeing a drop every x lives would be a good idea, but not just for the DL lives. It is not confirmed yet that the base S rank costumes are guaranteed, is it? Because if not, they would also need that system. And even so, there is still only catalog 1 released, who knows what's coming in the future, the EX episodes changed a lot in OfA, maybe people are just too impatient.

And btw: i don't know anyone who percieves the DL lives as a problem apart from you. Yes, some here have voiced their dissatisfaction with the DL lives, but not with their existence. On other channels i haven't even read dissatisfaction with them.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Hime Idol on August 23, 2016, 06:36:31 pm
Sorry Naryoril but I can't stay silent anymore. (And sorry Setsuna if I'm intruding.) But Naryoril you are basically saying to me, Setsuna, and others who want to do requests and complete this game 100% a really big "fuck you" with a nice middle finger attached to it. Besides requests I also make videos that I can enjoy for myself. So I guess it's: "Oh well get over it if you can't get everything. You only literally pay thousands of dollars/yen to Namco for DLC material. So get over it that the drop rates are low at least you're getting mostly recolored free stuff so far." Yeah I should be thankful that Namco can't even bother to make unique outfits anymore even though they get millions of dollars/yen from im@s fans all over the world. They have the money and resources to do it but they won't. More money in their pockets if they don't spend and more money they'll make by making the DL Live drops nearly impossible unless you buy the p-drops. I played one day 8 hours straight and didn't drop one thing from the 1st DL Live. Then used 150 p-drops in 3 separate lives and only got one Bunny Ring, one Bunny Garter, and four Punk Goth outfits in three drops and the second one didn't have one DL Live item in it and I didn't even get 1 gold present in that one. But yeah I should be thankful to Namco for making me spend money on "free" material if I want to unlock everything without having to play 500+hours on the DL Lives alone. I already did that with OFA.

On the Japanese wiki for the game someone actually did the % number for the gold drops, it's 0.8%. We don't even have a 1% chance to get gold presents. I can only imagine that DL Lives have an ever lower number. Though silver presents can hold the accessories as well but the outfits are only gold drops. I was lucky enough to naturally drop Aurora Diva yesterday after a solo live with Miki. It was only the third "natural" gold present I ever dropped without p-drops but never naturally dropped the DL Live accessories or outfits yet.
http://gametter.com/platinum-stars/TIPS_C_06.html

Namco solely made these DL Lives to make money off the p-drops, no one can dispute that. What we can dispute is that we do not need to be thankful for these non-free DL Lives. In the end they are not free, they are craftily designed money makers for greedy Namco. Even though I LOVE im@s I'm very tempted to make this the very last im@s game I ever buy. Namco is getting ridiculous with the money grabbing tactics. I spent over $1,600 on OFA (excluding mail, money, and DLC guest idols) and I fear PS will only be worse with the expensive but content-light DLCs and the not so free DL Lives. I can only hope if we do ever get a proper im@s3 it'll be better executed than PS's structure. OFA had a great gameplay structure (you had jobs to complete in a set time and actually needed strategy to beat opponents) but PS has the superior graphics (duh PS4 after all). I can only hope that im@s3 will be a combination of the OFA gameplay structure along with PS graphics, if ever released and if I'm still willing to throw money at Namco at that point.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Reikuo on August 23, 2016, 07:39:49 pm
Namco solely made these DL Lives to make money off the p-drops, no one can dispute that. What we can dispute is that we do not need to be thankful for these non-free DL Lives. In the end they are not free, they are craftily designed money makers for greedy Namco. Even though I LOVE im@s I'm very tempted to make this the very last im@s game I ever buy. Namco is getting ridiculous with the money grabbing tactics. I spent over $1,600 on OFA (excluding mail, money, and DLC guest idols) and I fear PS will only be worse with the expensive but content-light DLCs and the not so free DL Lives. I can only hope if we do ever get a proper im@s3 it'll be better executed than PS's structure. OFA had a great gameplay structure (you had jobs to complete in a set time and actually needed strategy to beat opponents) but PS has the superior graphics (duh PS4 after all). I can only hope that im@s3 will be a combination of the OFA gameplay structure along with PS graphics, if ever released and if I'm still willing to throw money at Namco at that point.
The concept of pdrops is great originally, its DLC that a small minority of the community pays for that everyone is able to have access too. Now if there really is only 12 planned, and based on how fast they are coming out and frankly how cruddy DL Live 2 and 3 are, its clear this is just launch content being released after the fact.

Everyone knows the drop rates are atrocious, which is really where all the arguments start and stop. Honestly there are just not enough items in this game to even have a drop rate system.

As for paying that much for DLC, well at the end of the day what do you really expect? They are just taking advantage of IM@S fans because they have proven they will pay these prices. The new Dark Souls 3 DLC was announced with new weapons, armor, magic, bosses and a new area and new PvP map all for 1200 yen. Meanwhile the miracle dance hall outfit is 1500 yen with none of the accessory's. Respectfully, you paying those outlandish prices makes you a brick in the foundation that created the current state of Platinum Stars.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on August 23, 2016, 08:28:18 pm
But Naryoril you are basically saying to me, Setsuna, and others who want to do requests and complete this game 100% a really big "fuck you" with a nice middle finger attached to it.

No, i'm not, how many times do i have to explain that? I fully agree that the present drop system with these probabilities completely sucks. But this system is there entirely independent of the DL lives, it is not just a DL live problem and it isn't the DL live's fault.

If you hate these DL lives so much, what would you rather have? Not have the items the DL lives contain at all, so it's easier to reach 100% of the items, even if that means you will have less options to make your videos? The people complaining about the lack of variety in costumes and accessories won't be happy about that, not to mention that it doesn't make sense to wish for less options for the videos (especially since 2 of 6 items are guaranteed after 4 lives). Or would you like to have these items integrated into the game right off the bat, without the DL lives? And if so, in what manner? Having them in separate lives like it is now? That doesn't change anything in the current state of affairs except for the fact that it is all available right now, but you wouldn't save any time to get all 100% of the items. Or would you like to have these items in the normal drop pool? That would make getting 100% even more difficult.

So what would you change about the DL lives that would make things better for you and everyone else? The present drop system and the p drop bait that comes with it is NOT an issue just of the DL lives, it's an issue of the whole game. THAT's what i have been saying all the time. Don't blame the DL lives for that, if there were no DL lives things wouldn't be better for you or anyone else.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Roswell on August 23, 2016, 10:18:18 pm
Those problems, although independent of DL lives and affects a core of the game itself, still affect DL lives very deeply and make DL lives themselves function very sloppily as a result.The solution is to obviously change the drop rates and produce less recolor and more unique outfits, even if it's at the expense of less DL lives in the long run. You're defending DL lives for no reason other than they're "free" and that namco is somehow throwing us a bone with them.

And how do you know that things wouldn't be better without DL lives at all? Perhaps they never introduced the idea of extending the game's game time with peridocally released events AND ACTUALLY CREATED THE BASE SET COSTUMES WITH MORE VARIETY TO START. If they planned DL lives well beforehand, they could very well have stiffed us with the base set so that we would spend money on p drops to get these DL live costumes that are seemingly "free".
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on August 23, 2016, 10:42:45 pm
Those problems, although independent of DL lives and affects a core of the game itself, still affect DL lives very deeply and make DL lives themselves function very sloppily as a result.The solution is to obviously change the drop rates and produce less recolor and more unique outfits, even if it's at the expense of less DL lives in the long run. You're defending DL lives for no reason other than they're "free" and that namco is somehow throwing us a bone with them.

And how do you know that things wouldn't be better without DL lives at all? Perhaps they never introduced the idea of extending the game's game time with peridocally released events AND ACTUALLY CREATED THE BASE SET COSTUMES WITH MORE VARIETY TO START. If they planned DL lives well beforehand, they could very well have stiffed us with the base set so that we would spend money on p drops to get these DL live costumes that are seemingly "free".

You are talking about the costumes now, but the costumes from the DL lives are not affected by the drop issue at all, only the accessories are. Ex clearing the C rank of a DL lives gives you the C rank costume guaranteed, ex clearing the A rank gives you the S rank costume guaranteed. There is absolutely no reason to spend money on P drops to get the costumes, so yes, the costumes are indeed free.

And if all these items were added to the game right from the start and not bit by bit through DL lives, that wouldn't help the completionists with the accessories either, they would still need to acquire them all through drops, tempting them to buy p drops to speed up the process. So even assuming all the Dl live content is already completed, the only drawback of the DL lives is that not all items are available right off the bat, acquiring the items and all the issues that come with it (spending time and/or lots of money on p drops) wouldn't be better if the items were included in the base game.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Roswell on August 23, 2016, 10:51:38 pm
You're still not giving any reasons as to why DL lives should be free of criticism. If it's ridden with the same problems as the game, why can we complain about the base set costumes' lack of variety and the drop rates of regular lives being horrific but when we complain about them in regards to DL lives, you're giving a much more negative reaction towards those complaints?

And I was not saying the costumes were affected by drop rates. I do recognize that they are separate issues, but they are both issues that DL lives are encountering as well as the non-DL portions of the game. Whether you like it or not, fans (completionists, cataloguers, or otherwise) are having a hard time enjoying these aspects of the game, including the DL lives. People are only focusing on the DL lives more now (and as a result complaining about them more) because they keep coming out with more versus people have already experienced what the base set has to offer.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on August 23, 2016, 11:26:30 pm
I am defending the DL lives because nobody could bring up any real issue which was actually caused by them, and which would be better if the DL lives didin't exist.

The only drawback that might be caused by the DL lives is that the base game might contain less items because of them, but that's pure speculation. And even then, that's no reason to complain about the DL lives being released in quick succession. On contrary, everyone unhappy about the low amount of costumes and accessories should hope for the DL lives to be released as soon as possible, since they help relieve that problem.

But it seems there are 2 camps here: The ones blame the DL lives that there are not enough costumes and accessories in the game (thus there not being enough variety), and the others blame the DL lives that there are too many costumes and accessories in the game (thus it being too hard to get every single item).
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Roswell on August 23, 2016, 11:36:15 pm
...or people just don't like how the DL lives are being played out and wished they were handled differently. The same way we feel about other aspects of the game.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on August 23, 2016, 11:46:36 pm
...or people just don't like how the DL lives are being played out and wished they were handled differently. The same way we feel about other aspects of the game.

Only that those people never said what they don't like, not to mention how they want them to be handled. The DL lives, not the drop system.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Roswell on August 23, 2016, 11:48:41 pm
Only that those people never said what they don't like, not to mention how they want them to be handled. The DL lives, not the drop system.

The DL lives use the drop system so if the drop system is problematic so are the DL lives, I don't understand how that's so hard to understand. Less recolors, better drop rates. Bam, DL lives are a lot more appealing.

You can't talk about DL lives without talking about drop rates. The whole point of the DL lives is to get more costumes and accessories, the latter of which are 100% depedent on drop rates.

People have been complaining about the two recolors in the last 3 DL lives and Setsuna even detailed the math for you about drop rates of DL live accessories and yet somehow nobody mentioned what the problems with DL lives are?
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Rin on August 24, 2016, 12:04:52 am
I think everyone should just stop. What is the point of dragging this out any more? And how much longer would it go on for? This topic seems pretty ruined now and I don't even know where any of this is going to go from here.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on August 24, 2016, 12:26:20 am
yeah, let's stop it here. it doesn't look like we can get our arguments across to each other. Keep on blaming the game's faults on the DL lives and hating them if you want to, i'm going to continue to enjoy them and be happy they exist.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Nagi on August 26, 2016, 02:46:26 am
A hint of the next DL Live appears to have been revealed. It will be a BRAND NEW costume, and like DL Live 1, this one is a DL Live based on a DLC song (OVERMASTER!!!!). Apparently, the costume looks like a renewed version of Beyond the Stars? At least that's what I think, it reminds me of Hibiki's version of the costume but a bit different. I really want it. I wonder if it will have color variants (or if they will include different variants like the original Beyond the Stars, even though I doubt it). Here's the picture: https://twitter.com/zerahearts/status/768838573109817345
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Adz0086 on August 26, 2016, 04:14:04 am
A hint of the next DL Live appears to have been revealed. It will be a BRAND NEW costume, and like DL Live 1, this one is a DL Live based on a DLC song (OVERMASTER!!!!). Apparently, the costume looks like a renewed version of Beyond the Stars? At least that's what I think, it reminds me of Hibiki's version of the costume but a bit different. I really want it. I wonder if it will have color variants (or if they will include different variants like the original Beyond the Stars, even though I doubt it). Here's the picture: https://twitter.com/zerahearts/status/768838573109817345
Overmaster as the live song and costumes that look like beyond the stars? This has Project Fairy written all over it ;D ;D
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Nagi on August 26, 2016, 04:49:50 am
Overmaster as the live song and costumes that look like beyond the stars? This has Project Fairy written all over it ;D ;D
And as a Project FairyP, I couldn't be happier! Haha
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Hime Idol on September 05, 2016, 07:31:23 pm
The 5th DL Live's outfit and accessories look awesome. I might just spend some money on p-drops for this one.

Did end up spending $107.98 and had an extra 10,000 yen from the last DLC left over. Ended up dropping the earrings, necklace, and anklet (even though I really wanted the bracelet more than the anklet). They all look awesome and the outfit is amazing. This is what I expect out of the DLC and DL lives.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Adz0086 on September 05, 2016, 09:56:27 pm
Hopefully this starts a trend for namco releasing worthy dlc's ^
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on September 06, 2016, 12:52:38 am
my guess is that there will be 1 DL live with a new costume and 2 with a recolor for each catalog (or maybe 1 and 1), where the new costume matches one of the DLC songs from the corresponding catalog. For the first catalog it was I Want (DL live 1), and the one from DL live 4 matches Overmaster.

But the new costume really is awesome:
It looks like a blue and black version of Hibiki's Beyond the Stars costume (plus some other changes, but it's clearly inspired by it), has +3 omoide appeals, 7k full combo bonus, trio burst 2 and +10% on all rewards
Btw: it can be used for all events that call for genki musume type costumes.

@Hime Idol: What are the skills of the accessories?
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Hime Idol on September 06, 2016, 03:29:58 am
my guess is that there will be 1 DL live with a new costume and 2 with a recolor for each catalog (or maybe 1 and 1), where the new costume matches one of the DLC songs from the corresponding catalog. For the first catalog it was I Want (DL live 1), and the one from DL live 4 matches Overmaster.

But the new costume really is awesome:
It looks like a blue and black version of Hibiki's Beyond the Stars costume (plus some other changes, but it's clearly inspired by it), has +3 omoide appeals, 7k full combo bonus, trio burst 2 and +10% on all rewards
Btw: it can be used for all events that call for genki musume type costumes.

@Hime Idol: What are the skills of the accessories?

Using Google Translate for the names. Sorry for the messy/incorrect translations.

Headpiece: スターイヤリングジェミニ (Star earrings Gemini) - Rank A - Charge Lv1 (チャージLv1)
Bodypiece: スターネックレスヴァルゴ (Star Necklace Varugo?) - Rank A - Drive Duo (ドライブデュオ)
Armpiece: -don't have yet- from official website: スターブレスキヤンサー (Star Bracelet Cancer) - Rank A - Charge Lv 2 (チヤージLv2)
Legpiece: スターチャーム リエス(?) (Star Charm Riesu?) - Rank A - Chain Bonus 100 (ヂェイン ボーナス100)

I think they're named after zodiac constellations/astrological signs. The earrings are Gemini, I'm guessing the necklace is Virgo, the bracelet is Cancer, and the anklet maybe Aries if I have the wrong katakana for it?
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: ChocoCats on September 06, 2016, 03:36:47 am
Body is Virgo and the leg is Liesse or something (typo?)
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Hime Idol on September 06, 2016, 03:42:34 am
Body is Virgo and the leg is Liesse or something (typo?)

If you put the whole thing together スターチャームリエス it translates as Star Charm Li es
It seemed to make better sense with the space put in  スターチャーム リエス - Star Charm Riesu

I don't know though. Google translate can be funny about stuff.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: suzushinayuriko on September 06, 2016, 05:10:36 am
If you put the whole thing together スターチャームリエス it translates as Star Charm Li es
It seemed to make better sense with the space put in  スターチャーム リエス - Star Charm Riesu

I don't know though. Google translate can be funny about stuff.

You have a typo. The name on the website is スターチャームアリエス, which is "Star Charm Aries".
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: ChocoCats on September 06, 2016, 06:46:27 am
Yeah, Aries is what I expected.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on September 12, 2016, 06:52:56 pm
The next DL live starts on Thursday

http://idolmaster.jp/blog/?p=22893 (http://idolmaster.jp/blog/?p=22893)
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: DeviantProtagonist on September 12, 2016, 11:02:23 pm
Moo.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: mallory627 on October 07, 2016, 04:57:21 am
For the new catalog, the one that has Kyun! Vampire Girl, where do I get the P-Drops? I checked on the PSN and in the store tab in-game, and I can't find them anywhere, and I haven't gotten them yet. ;A;
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Nakiame on October 07, 2016, 07:47:15 am
For the new catalog, the one that has Kyun! Vampire Girl, where do I get the P-Drops? I checked on the PSN and in the store tab in-game, and I can't find them anywhere, and I haven't gotten them yet. ;A;
If you are looking for those free p-drops, then you get them as a separate DLC from JP playstation store.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: mallory627 on October 07, 2016, 08:52:17 am
If you are looking for those free p-drops, then you get them as a separate DLC from JP playstation store.

That's the thing, I went on to where you can see and buy the DLC, but when I got through the catalog it doesn't show them. ;A;
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Hime Idol on October 11, 2016, 05:03:44 pm
Next DL Live is coming up this Thursday. And it's another mediocre recolor this time. At least the accessories look cute.

http://idolmaster.jp/blog/?p=23510
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: DeviantProtagonist on October 11, 2016, 06:55:28 pm
Next thing you know it'll be recolored accessories.

Oh well, our bots will eat it up. Om nom nom nom.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Hime Idol on October 20, 2016, 07:39:42 pm
The 9th DL was released last night. Um...well disappointment doesn't quite explain this one.

http://idolmaster.jp/blog/?p=23839
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Reikuo on October 21, 2016, 12:12:11 am
I think I already know the answer to this but I never see anyone complaining about it. So once you get all your idols to A rank, all that is left to do is begin the S rank grind. However from what im seeing there are just a handful of lives/jobs to select that actually give worthwhile fan numbers. The majority of the lives give 5-9k fans with a few giving 12-13k, then some of the S rank ones give 25k.

Well anyway, my problem is you pretty much cant use what feels like about 80% or more of the games outfits unless you want to drop all the way back to C or B rank lives and get virtually no fans or money for doing it. Is there something im missing? There is no outfit type variety in A and S rank, nor the SP lives. The DL lives are not any better either. Hell I would have gotten some of the DLC, but there is no point because I seriously cant use the outfits and farm fans at the same time. I know S4U is there, but I want to actually play on top of not getting burnt out on the songs since the grind is already long.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Rin on October 21, 2016, 05:19:00 am
I think I already know the answer to this but I never see anyone complaining about it.

Because we've already been over everything wrong with PS. A number of us stopped caring about it enough to continue talking about it, and the ones that still play it keep to themselves about the gameplay, from what I can tell.

But no, you're not really missing a whole lot. This is just what the game is. I feel at this point you can either accept it and enjoy it for what you do get with it or, well, just stop altogether. No offense to anyone but I don't see much a point in playing it if you hate it and aren't even doing it for others, i.e., song requests for people who don't have it. I still love playing it, but that's just me.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Miki Fan on October 22, 2016, 07:07:11 am
However from what im seeing there are just a handful of lives/jobs to select that actually give worthwhile fan numbers. The majority of the lives give 5-9k fans with a few giving 12-13k, then some of the S rank ones give 25k.

Aren't there DL lives that give like 100000, 200000, 300000, and even a million fans?
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Setsuna on October 22, 2016, 07:10:15 am
Aren't there DL lives that give like 100000, 200000, 300000, and even a million fans?

Yes, but they are one shot - they're not repeatable, and once you do them, they disappear from the selectable list.

The regular ones you'll be doing on a regular basis don't provide nearly as many.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Adz0086 on October 23, 2016, 10:31:53 pm
The 9th DL was released last night. Um...well disappointment doesn't quite explain this one.

http://idolmaster.jp/blog/?p=23839

Why do I feel like Hibiki's ponytail and Yayoi's twintails would clip through that hat :P
The outfit is pretty cute tho
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: DeviantProtagonist on October 25, 2016, 12:33:18 am
I need to address this, Naryoril. Not only to end strife, but to at least save myself from... well, myself.

More to that, what took this so damn long is that I'm a coward, sweeping bad things beneath the rug without looking at long-term ramifications. This dawned on me upon losing a dear friend, so now I'm hell-bent on killing personal demons.

Starting with some context, I don't think myself highly as a person. Not in the moral sense, but as an individual altogether; I was bullied as a student, watching time and again as I saw sweethearts slip away... no thanks to my lack of initiative.

Moving onto the now, I became solely reliant on meeting people, so as to follow their examples on how to live a happy life; whether they be selfless or highly intelligent, I was inspired. I tend to choose my friends very, very deliberately.

Sadly, the prospect of this got to my head; it turned me into something ugly; something cruel to you.

I still think the implementation of DL Lives are sloppy, yet we could've had a mutual disagreement, and I'd have ended it at that point, absolutely. Instead, I insulted you, mocked your persistence and ran gossip away from the forums. Bad things.

Right then and there I became something that I hated most -- a bully -- and now it's tearing me apart.

Outstanding fucking hypocrisy, so you heard it from me! In some fairness, the catalyst wasn't entirely my doing; Setsuna poured her heart in an objective post, only for you to brush it off as fallacy. That is what angered me. Kicked everything off.

Beyond this, however, I did in fact go too far in what I gloried as retribution. Sweet revenge. I'm awful.

Truth be told, I'm rather envious of you; not only have you endured my abuse, you kept things cool under heavy contention with Setsuna. More yet, you indulge in an unadulterated love for your idol. A proper individual to learn from, if I ever saw one.

To be seen a malignant bastard is one of my worst personal failures -- it's enough to spite myself with cursing, even self-inflicted harm. I mean Christ, I damn-near ran my palm on the edge of a garden scythe... but abstinence got the best of things.

To think if my mom saw that? My deceased sister? I can at least atone for these acts... but overall, my actions were deplorable and I have no right to ask forgiveness, not to mention for others affected. Yet... I can at least try for an understanding.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: mariokirby on October 25, 2016, 06:21:14 am
Woah, that was pretty deep.  Guess, I learned more about you.


Sorry.  Anyways, we all accept your apology regarding the recent incident.  In my opinion, I think both parties are equally to blame, so it's not entirely your fault.  I understand you felt guilty about your reaction, but it's good that you came up to give a sincere apology.  And, we all respect that as that takes a lot of courage and dignity.  And, I think you made a good example to everyone on the forum.  Something, we all should follow not only on the internet but also in real life.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on October 25, 2016, 09:19:00 am
Apology accepted DeviantProtagonist, and thank you.

First of all, this is the internet, there will always be arguing and misunderstandings, due to the written form. And, like you, i'm no stranger to being bullied, i have been bullied all my childhood until i moved to a different school in a neighboring at village the age of 14 (which had nothing to do with the bullying, simply because there was no "high school" in the village where i lived) and i learned not to take everything at heart.

That said, to be honest, after all this, i admit i toned back my efforts trying to help everyone out with the game (e.g. i didn't put as much effort into the scoring mechanics analysis as i intended to).

As for my persistence on the topic (edit: and i say this fully aware that this could start the whole mess again):
I kept persisting for 2 reasons:

1) No one of you ever answered the question i kept asking: in what manner would you prefer the items from the DL lives to be in the game, without altering the game's (drop) mechanics? As long as this question isn't answered, i simply can't see any blame in the DL lives or their implementation, imo all the blame is in the drop system itself.
The only way i see is to make all the DL live items, as well as all other items in the game, ex clear rewards, thus making the drop system pretty much obsolete and nothing more than a nice bonus for getting items early or leveling them up. But this solution is borderline "altering the game's (drop) mechanics". And once again: i fully agree that the drop system really really sucks and needs to be changed by implementing a floor (at least 1 gold present very x lives) or something.
I probably keep insisting on this because i hate seeing the, in my eyes at least, innocent being blamed for something they didn't do, even if it isn't people.

2) This here is the only place where i saw such negativity towards the game, and it frankly strikes me as odd.


Edit: added some words that went missing after shifting sentences around while writing the post.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Nakiame on October 25, 2016, 10:15:50 pm
2) This here is the only place where i saw such negativity towards the game, and it frankly strikes me as odd.

That's cause people here really care about the game.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: DeviantProtagonist on October 26, 2016, 02:08:33 am
Woah, that was pretty deep.  Guess, I learned more about you.


Sorry.  Anyways, we all accept your apology regarding the recent incident.  In my opinion, I think both parties are equally to blame, so it's not entirely your fault.  I understand you felt guilty about your reaction, but it's good that you came up to give a sincere apology.  And, we all respect that as that takes a lot of courage and dignity.  And, I think you made a good example to everyone on the forum.  Something, we all should follow not only on the internet but also in real life.

I needed to prove who my real self was, with all targeting sings pointed on me and my willingness to pull the trigger. It's something many take for granted, yet I totally understand why.

Still, I drew too near the point of no return; I'd be too ashamed in your presence, let alone deem myself a worthwhile friend and to others who do. Gratefully, one of ours gave that push.

While I refuse to again lose sight of myself, we're all humans capable of failure. Thinking I should emphasize less on what role models did best and more as to how they handle problems.

Apology accepted DeviantProtagonist, and thank you.

First of all, this is the internet, there will always be arguing and misunderstandings, due to the written form. And, like you, i'm no stranger to being bullied, i have been bullied all my childhood until i moved to a different school in a neighboring at village the age of 14 (which had nothing to do with the bullying, simply because there was no "high school" in the village where i lived) and i learned not to take everything at heart.

That said, to be honest, after all this, i admit i toned back my efforts trying to help everyone out with the game (e.g. i didn't put as much effort into the scoring mechanics analysis as i intended to).

As for my persistence on the topic (edit: and i say this fully aware that this could start the whole mess again):
I kept persisting for 2 reasons:

1) No one of you ever answered the question i kept asking: in what manner would you prefer the items from the DL lives to be in the game, without altering the game's (drop) mechanics? As long as this question isn't answered, i simply can't see any blame in the DL lives or their implementation, imo all the blame is in the drop system itself.
The only way i see is to make all the DL live items, as well as all other items in the game, ex clear rewards, thus making the drop system pretty much obsolete and nothing more than a nice bonus for getting items early or leveling them up. But this solution is borderline "altering the game's (drop) mechanics". And once again: i fully agree that the drop system really really sucks and needs to be changed by implementing a floor (at least 1 gold present very x lives) or something.
I probably keep insisting on this because i hate seeing the, in my eyes at least, innocent being blamed for something they didn't do, even if it isn't people.

2) This here is the only place where i saw such negativity towards the game, and it frankly strikes me as odd.


Edit: added some words that went missing after shifting sentences around while writing the post.

I'm beyond happy to know that. The written form can indeed go a long way in causing harm, which had I any foresight to, I'd punch myself many times over. Nevertheless, an amnesty like this can breed something so much more.

I mean, if I could buy you some rounds of beer, I'd totally would. Looking forward to those new kinds of possibilities. Still, my personal grievances aren't over just yet... but I'm glad we're able to gain closure with this one, Naryoril.

To more an amusing side, a percentage floor was indeed added at some point; no clue on numbers, but the summary was one of Namco's partners threatened to drop out after having done 2000 Lives with nothing to show for it.

Sure did away with Namco's cold shoulder, right then and there.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Setsuna on October 26, 2016, 10:01:57 am
You are strawman arguing and you know it. I have stated solutions, and your demand to 'answer the question' shows you actually believe the base premises that NBEI have made, or you do not (or do not WANT TO) understand the actual problem.


The DL live system would work fine (for various definitions of fine, I suppose but that's a matter of modelling), but the base assumptions that they used are either flawed (namely, they assumed that the real life spread would be far less than they ended up being) or they really wanted to go in for the long haul (namely that 2-4 hours a day, every day for a year for 50/100% completion at roughly 66%)

The first is a probability oversight and can be corrected by increasing the rate and introducing a present drop floor. The second is scary, and needs to be corrected by reevaluating what the expected PS player would actually be DOING over the course of six months or a year, then adjusting the drop rates so they reasonably match the actual expected within a deviation or two.

If you attempt to straw man the argument again, (Cause this is already the second time in as many posts AFTER pushing forward two posts of insults) you've demonstrated that you're not actually interested in a discussion and are trying to push a narrative without an iota of respect, and you will be given the amount of respect as you are due.

You can keep the DL live system as is, actually, if you modelled completion to something relatively SANE. 80 hours or more PER EVENT is not sane by any measure, and you know it, because you haven't attempted to defend that point.


So apparently what I said wasn't a solution. Include a drop floor, improve the drop rates. This WOULD improve the game substantially, because a greater deal of reliability would be there, because even now with the changes, it's a wild roller coaster. (Ask some of the other players. They moved the goal posts slightly, but well, the problem is in the drop mechanics.)


Incidentally, get a translator, and catch.

https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%90%E3%83%B3%E3%83%80%E3%82%A4%E3%83%8A%E3%83%A0%E3%82%B3%E3%82%A8%E3%83%B3%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%86%E3%82%A4%E3%83%B3%E3%83%A1%E3%83%B3%E3%83%88-%E3%82%A2%E3%82%A4%E3%83%89%E3%83%AB%E3%83%9E%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC-%E3%83%97%E3%83%A9%E3%83%81%E3%83%8A%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA/dp/B01DVJMI0Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1477468617&sr=8-1&keywords=%E3%82%A2%E3%82%A4%E3%83%89%E3%83%AB%E3%83%9E%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC+%E3%83%97%E3%83%A9%E3%83%81%E3%83%8A%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA

If you're wondering that's the amazon.jp page for Platinum stars.

Read through all of it, and don't be surprised if you find out the RNG put you on the good side of the game.

There's more of course, including things I'm not allowed to disclose due to commercial in confidence, but let's put it this way - When a game puts off someone who really loves the game to the point they're willing to pull a BUSINESS DEAL with NBGI over it, you might have a tiny problem with the model. (Incidentally, this deal nearly being pulled prompted the changes.)


Apology accepted DeviantProtagonist, and thank you.

First of all, this is the internet, there will always be arguing and misunderstandings, due to the written form. And, like you, i'm no stranger to being bullied, i have been bullied all my childhood until i moved to a different school in a neighboring at village the age of 14 (which had nothing to do with the bullying, simply because there was no "high school" in the village where i lived) and i learned not to take everything at heart.

That said, to be honest, after all this, i admit i toned back my efforts trying to help everyone out with the game (e.g. i didn't put as much effort into the scoring mechanics analysis as i intended to).

As for my persistence on the topic (edit: and i say this fully aware that this could start the whole mess again):
I kept persisting for 2 reasons:

1) No one of you ever answered the question i kept asking: in what manner would you prefer the items from the DL lives to be in the game, without altering the game's (drop) mechanics? As long as this question isn't answered, i simply can't see any blame in the DL lives or their implementation, imo all the blame is in the drop system itself.
The only way i see is to make all the DL live items, as well as all other items in the game, ex clear rewards, thus making the drop system pretty much obsolete and nothing more than a nice bonus for getting items early or leveling them up. But this solution is borderline "altering the game's (drop) mechanics". And once again: i fully agree that the drop system really really sucks and needs to be changed by implementing a floor (at least 1 gold present very x lives) or something.
I probably keep insisting on this because i hate seeing the, in my eyes at least, innocent being blamed for something they didn't do, even if it isn't people.

2) This here is the only place where i saw such negativity towards the game, and it frankly strikes me as odd.

Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Taylor_Omnom115 on October 28, 2016, 06:20:44 am
Here's a new DL LIVE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Boraa_SIboU (DL LIVE is at 0:55)
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Naryoril on November 08, 2016, 04:36:27 pm
the accessories of the latest DL live are interesting, they give skills in slots where they weren't available before, most notably you can get 100 chain bonus on the arm slot now.
This means, it's now possible to use drive trio and 100 chain bonus at the same time, before that it was only possible when you could use certain S rank costumes which have the 100 chain bonus.
And by using the F rank tiara, you can still keep the charge level which usually is on the arm slot. So that's an extra 2100 to 3500 points through this accessory for people who are struggling to clear the DL lives, and it's easy to get since it comes from the first event of the new DL live iirc (or maybe the second)
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Hime Idol on November 11, 2016, 06:47:11 pm
DL Live 11th has been announced. The recolor is actually very nice looking. I really like the necklace from this one.

http://idolmaster.jp/blog/?p=24326
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: DawnHibiki on November 15, 2016, 07:04:47 am
Here's a new DL LIVE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Boraa_SIboU (DL LIVE is at 0:55)

I love the LOBM bikinis in Platinum Stars.  They all look so cute!  Too bad that the DLC is too expensive for me to purchase.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Taylor_Omnom115 on December 02, 2016, 05:05:20 am
https://youtu.be/8Csvy6zDBWo

 0:56 DL LIVE looks pretty neat. I'm kinda dissapointed that the outfit isnt 765 colored...
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: TheBluePhone on December 08, 2016, 04:26:17 am
So I just cleared one of the DL lives, the one for the vampire outfit (Miki is the cover girl), and....didn't get the outfit. Please tell me this is the only one that doesn't give the outfit as a confirmed reward . - .
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: mariokirby on December 08, 2016, 05:04:07 am
Unfortunately, no.  From DL Live 7 and onward, you get the accessories as rewards, but the outfits are gold drops instead.  And, even if you manage a gold present, it's about 1/5 chance of getting the outfit from the gold present since the accessories are included into the mix as well.  For me, there's a whole bunch of DL live outfits I'm unable to get because of this.

You could try botting if you really want all the outfits/accessories from DL live.  That's explained in the other topic.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Treemotan on December 08, 2016, 06:16:13 am
Honestly, I'm about to give up and just use a bot. I can't seem to get any DL outfits or accessories. I'm gonna be singing Kiramekirari in my sleep with how many times I've had to clear that song.

Weirdly enough though, I HAVE gotten certain DL recolors (at least that's what I"m assuming based on the little shopping cart icon) from regular ranked Live drops. Which makes no sense to me, but whatever. I'll take it. I'm assuming it's because they're lower than S-rank or something.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Nakiame on December 08, 2016, 09:43:38 am
Weirdly enough though, I HAVE gotten certain DL recolors (at least that's what I"m assuming based on the little shopping cart icon) from regular ranked Live drops. Which makes no sense to me, but whatever. I'll take it. I'm assuming it's because they're lower than S-rank or something.

Some DLC reward you with a guaranteed crappy low-rank recolored outfit in addition to the main dish. Maybe you are refering to them.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Taylor_Omnom115 on January 17, 2017, 03:46:40 am
NEW DL LIVE JUST RELEASED A FEW MINUTES AGO!
(https://s28.postimg.org/ceofe8d15/C2_Vtn95_UUAAe_N3v.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ceofe8d15/)
(click the picture to see a larger version of it)
I feel like this costume would go perfectly with nanairo button. maybe a nanairo button remake?? ;D
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Okayu on February 11, 2017, 02:46:43 pm
Since it wasn't posted yet here's the latest DL Live with color coded earrings that are awesome.
(http://platinum-stars.idolmaster.jp/images/dlc/dllive/img_hold01.png)


Anyways I had an issue regarding DL Lives. I've tried following scoring guides already, but I'm having issues where I can't pass due to lacking specific costumes. For example I only have 1 Charming Girl costume (the red white and blue cool one) yet 3 lives require that type I can't pass even with that costume on. There's also some cool kira kira girl lives I can't do since most of mine are cute kira kira girl. Am I going to have to grind and pray a costume drops or what?
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: mariokirby on February 11, 2017, 05:02:34 pm
Unfortunately, some of the DL live rounds require a costume that you don’t have both category and type.   It’s doable in rounds 1-3, but the 4th round can be pretty difficult without a good set up.  Some people may have a different strategy, but this worked out for me.

My general approach in completing those kinds of DL live rounds is to wear a S-rank costume that satisfies category but not type.  That way I have increase number of memories which will help tremendously especially with the triple bonus you get from memory appeals for satisfying category.  Plus, having perfect combo bonus from the S-rank costume helps.

Also, having a good set up with accessories helps a lot too. 

I would recommend obtaining the S-rank costumes from DL lives 1-6 since those are guarantee.  Then, having 1 S-rank costume from main game plus having some luck from DL lives should get you a set of s-rank costumes you’ll need.

Surprisingly, I was able to Ex all DL lives at this point.  I hope this helps.

If you’re still having difficulties, then we may need to dig deeper.  Like, are you optimizing your accessories set up?  Or, are you optimizing scoring strategies, etc.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Okayu on February 11, 2017, 06:05:30 pm
My general approach in completing those kinds of DL live rounds is to wear a S-rank costume that satisfies category but not type.  That way I have increase number of memories which will help tremendously especially with the triple bonus you get from memory appeals for satisfying category.  Plus, having perfect combo bonus from the S-rank costume helps.

Also, having a good set up with accessories helps a lot too. 

I would recommend obtaining the S-rank costumes from DL lives 1-6 since those are guarantee.  Then, having 1 S-rank costume from main game plus having some luck from DL lives should get you a set of s-rank costumes you’ll need.

Surprisingly, I was able to Ex all DL lives at this point.  I hope this helps.

If you’re still having difficulties, then we may need to dig deeper.  Like, are you optimizing your accessories set up?  Or, are you optimizing scoring strategies, etc.

Ah my bad I forgot to mention I already have the costumes from the ones they gave away during the first few DL Lives. I tried using just category but those also got nowhere close to EX clearing them. I've tried using the mixed strategy using duo and trio memories, arm slot combo bonus DL Live item, and the tiara with all 3 charges.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: mariokirby on February 12, 2017, 05:12:16 am
Which DL live are you currently trying to EX?  It seems like you got a good setup.  Not sure why you’re not scoring high enough.  Make sure you didn’t accidentally equip duo memory appeals twice (I made that mistake once.  Meant to equip triple memory appeal.)

Is your leader at S-rank?

I’m assuming you maxed lvl burst and memory for your unit and having 5 memory appeals for your leader.  And, that you have a lvl 10 fast bpm song.  Preferably using master difficulty.  And, that you perfect combo it to get the perfect combo bonus.  Also, using target support Z helps, so that you get more perfect notes.

Depending on the DL live, my set up differs.  Sometimes, I just keep experimenting until I get a higher score.

This sounds like a dumb idea but sometimes it worked for me.  Some DL lives I use S-rank tiara instead of the F-rank one.  Of course, then I have to use another accessory to get a lvl 2 charge so that I can use triple burst.  Meaning I lose the combo bonus accessory.  I don’t think it was the best strategy but somehow it worked for me at least for now.

Let me know if you're still having trouble.  I may have to play the DL live you're having trouble with to see what I did specifically to Ex it.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: Okayu on February 12, 2017, 02:27:24 pm
Is your leader at S-rank?

I’m assuming you maxed lvl burst and memory for your unit and having 5 memory appeals for your leader.  And, that you have a lvl 10 fast bpm song.  Preferably using master difficulty.  And, that you perfect combo it to get the perfect combo bonus.  Also, using target support Z helps, so that you get more perfect notes.

Yeah I've been using all of those things but I still can't beat the later DL Lives.
Title: Re: DL Lives
Post by: mariokirby on February 13, 2017, 03:55:23 am
@Okayu

Some DL lives, I use the C-rank outfit which matches both type and category.  Other DL lives, I use the S-rank outfit that matches category.  (In some cases, I get lucky and the S-rank outfit satisfies both requirements).

Are you making sure the S-rank outfit you're wearing doesn't have a frown face in its type?  Some outfits may match category, but you'll get a frown face on type which you should avoid. (I remember one DL live where I used a few items to boost appeal in one of my accessory)


If you're still having trouble, but still want to EX the DL lives, then let me know anytime and I can try to beat it and see which set up I used.