Project-iM@S

THE iDOLM@STER => Other iM@S discussion => Topic started by: Okayu on February 05, 2016, 03:13:50 pm

Title: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: Okayu on February 05, 2016, 03:13:50 pm
I figured with the increase of interest coming from Deresute and the PS4 title it'd be good to have a thread for new fans and old fans alike to ask any questions they might have about the series.

Also for any new lurkers you can post as a guest without an account by replying normally and filling out the captcha.
Title: Re: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: MetalPredat0r on February 05, 2016, 09:24:02 pm
How much knowledge of the Japanese language do I need to play the games?
Title: Re: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: Kimiko on February 05, 2016, 09:43:39 pm
How much knowledge of the Japanese language do I need to play the games?

the main games or deresute?
for deresute, if you want to know what is going on in the commus you should know some japanese but for the gameplay, you not really need them
as for the main games...
I started them when I wasn't that good in japanese and I got a lot of bad and good commus, so if you aim for perfect commus and co you need to understand japanese
Title: Re: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: animagic4u on February 05, 2016, 09:54:33 pm
How much knowledge of the Japanese language do I need to play the games?

When I started playing, I didn't know any Japanese but over the last 7 years or so I've been beginning to understand more and more.
Although you don't need that much knowledge to be able to enjoy the games, I would highly recommend taking your studies to the next level to see where you can get. :)
Title: Re: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: mariokirby on February 05, 2016, 11:22:49 pm
How much knowledge of the Japanese language do I need to play the games?

Short answer:

None, if you just want to play the game from start to finish and view Stage for You concerts.

I was able to play through Im@s 2 and OFA using Online English guides and helpful people here.


Long Answer:

Obviously, without knowing Japanese, you'll miss out on a lot of the dialogue since the game has a visual novel component.

Some kind people did some translations for each game, but not everything is translated due to the sheer amount of dialogue.


So, it's up to you.  If you can learn it, then that's awesome.  You'll enjoy the games more and be respected among the community.  Plus, you'll be able to translate for others.  Don't know how much Japanese is necessary, but obviously the more you know the better off you are.




Title: Re: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: Cael K. on February 06, 2016, 06:08:35 am
How much knowledge of the Japanese language do I need to play the games?

Idolm@ster's language is pretty tame honestly, and the vocabulary you see in it isn't overly large, but it's still another language. If you wanna Ironman it (i.e. start learning Japanese by translating stuff), I'd say you need a good handle on grammar first, especially particles. Once you get that down, it's usually a matter of dictionary lookup (which takes a while), and then making sense out of how words relate to each other. I guess the second part is identifying when you're looking at an idiom or something, and of course those timed choices.

The Windows IME for kanji recognition does look at stroke order though, so it helps to know the basic rules for what strokes should come first. You should be able to find them on Wikipedia or something. The Android app I use doesn't care, but then its recognition isn't even close.
Title: Re: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: Nakiame on February 06, 2016, 11:26:46 am
The Windows IME for kanji recognition does look at stroke order though, so it helps to know the basic rules for what strokes should come first. You should be able to find them on Wikipedia or something. The Android app I use doesn't care, but then its recognition isn't even close.
Btw the reason i have a video capture card in my PC at all is to be able to use OCR (image to text) program for fast kanji recognition.
Title: Re: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: Naryoril on February 06, 2016, 11:35:59 am
The Windows IME for kanji recognition does look at stroke order though, so it helps to know the basic rules for what strokes should come first. You should be able to find them on Wikipedia or something. The Android app I use doesn't care, but then its recognition isn't even close.

Don't do kanji search by stroke order or by trying to draw them, look up kanji by radicals, it's much much more reliable, especially if you have come practice with it and know which parts are radicals. One example where you can do this is here: http://jisho.org/#radical
The dictionary app i use on my phone also lets me search by radicals.
Title: Re: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: Cael K. on February 06, 2016, 10:19:01 pm
Don't do kanji search by stroke order or by trying to draw them, look up kanji by radicals, it's much much more reliable, especially if you have come practice with it and know which parts are radicals. One example where you can do this is here: http://jisho.org/#radical
The dictionary app i use on my phone also lets me search by radicals.

Eh... whatever's easier for each person, I guess. Think I got to used to the Windows IME, which was pretty good at recognition, and I could have a kanji written out much faster than it took to look up one radical, even when I knew what I was looking for.

Though kanji stroke order is still good to know. You gotta know how many strokes are in a radical somehow, right?
Title: Re: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: terucchi on May 28, 2016, 07:39:50 am
Why the hate towards male idol characters and mainly mobage/GREE/mobile games in general?
Title: Re: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: DeviantProtagonist on May 28, 2016, 07:59:40 am
In a nutshell? It's not 765.
Title: Re: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: terucchi on May 28, 2016, 08:11:44 am
damn that's pretty much how it looks like in the LLSIP fandom too, that some haters hate LLS because its not u's like ??? and they make wars every day about the best girls because they're not (put haters' best girl name here). But thats like a very shallow reason.
Title: Re: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: Naryoril on May 28, 2016, 01:50:33 pm
For me it's mainly because there are way too many, which in turn means the characters are not as fleshed out as 765 pro.
I like 876 pro (Dearly Stars), but they are just 3 "girls" and some side characters (especially Mai is a lot of fun).
And that's also why i see the biggest potential in ML of all the spin offs, but even there it's way too many characters.

Also, if they are clever they will make a smooth transition from 765pro to ML, not just drop the old ones all together and then push the new ones, they could make the ML girls mingle in with 765pro and have them slowly take over. The story is set up for that and in some way they are already doing it, but they will need to do it outside of mobage (they did in some extent with the movie). Imo they should do it over the course of 2 or 3 console games.
Title: Re: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: MetalPredat0r on May 28, 2016, 05:54:16 pm
Why the hate towards male idol characters and mainly mobage/GREE/mobile games in general?

I'm actually someone that likes all the different sub-series: main, CG, ML, and SideM. I'm particularly a fan of main + ML myself.

However, I'll have to mirror what Nayoril said. There's just too many. The series from 2010 all the way to now went from 13 main voiced idols to over 100. That's just voiced idols alone. A number of people just can't keep up with that high a number.

And going to Nayoril's second point, the amount of idols is difficult to fully develop all of them. Moreso in CG than ML and SM since contrary to popular belief, the latter two (especially ML) have story commus that give more insight on the characters. However, of course it's not nearly as much as 765Pro, which to be fair have had 10 years worth of development, games, and overall existence to be fleshed out while these spin-off characters have hardly had half that time. There's great potential, but these characters need to be in a console game for that potential to be realized by a larger number of people.

To go to DeviantProtagonist's point, it may be a vague and blunt answer, but that's another existing mindset. People have gotten so attached to 765Pro for the longest time, they can't see themselves be bothered to get attached to the spin-offs. Whether it be the large number of idols, the lack of development in comparison, the lack of a console game, not having their favorite idol, etc., some people can't be bothered to leave what they're most familiar and comfortable with.

Also, as games, I hear the mobile games aren't very good. Like, at all.  :P
Title: Re: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: ChocoCats on May 28, 2016, 06:29:09 pm
The mobile games that is not Deresute are pretty bleh and looking at your comment at that hate thread, you seem to agree.

While I don't mind the mobile series, I do agree that the characters are pretty much cliches, CG in particular, though they're getting there.
I do like how SideM handles their CVs and CDs though so there's that.
Title: Re: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: mariokirby on May 28, 2016, 10:16:28 pm
However, I'll have to mirror what Nayoril said. There's just too many.  A number of people just can't keep up with that high a number.

And going to Nayoril's second point, the amount of idols is difficult to fully develop all of them. Moreso in CG than ML and SM since contrary to popular belief, the latter two (especially ML) have story commus that give more insight on the characters. However, of course it's not nearly as much as 765Pro, which to be fair have had 10 years worth of development, games, and overall existence to be fleshed out while these spin-off characters have hardly had half that time. There's great potential, but these characters need to be in a console game for that potential to be realized by a larger number of people.

Metalpredat0r pretty much nailed it.  (Although, this topic has been discussed a lot already).

Those are the weaknesses behind the spin-offs.  The 765pro idols are so well established and developed since they have a long history with console games, communications, story, songs, animes, mangas, radio, drama, etc.  Plus, the 765pro idols had lots of interactions between each other and their different  producers throughout their history.

And, they were able to pull all of this off easily since it is just 13 idols instead of a huge group of idols (it started as 10 in im@s 1 arcade.  Then, it was 11 with im@s 1 xbox360 with Miki.  Then, it was 13 with im@s 2 with Takane and Hibiki although they were introduced as the main rival unit back in SP). 

However, the spin-offs don’t have nearly as much history of development.  Part of the reason is because they’re relatively new.  But, the biggest reason (like mentioned before in the above posts) is because it’s difficult since the spin-offs have too many idols.  But, like Metalpredat0r said, there is some development like mobile games, mangas, songs, etc.  But, a lot more work needs to be done.

 
People have gotten so attached to 765Pro for the longest time, they can't see themselves be bothered to get attached to the spin-offs. Whether it be the large number of idols, the lack of development in comparison, the lack of a console game, not having their favorite idol, etc., some people can't be bothered to leave what they're most familiar and comfortable with.

I'll admit I'm bias (and attached) towards 765pro because when I first started getting into im@s, there were no spin-offs like CG or ML.  (There was Dearly Stars but let’s keep it simple).  All you had were the 13 idols and that was it.  Like I said before they are very established/developed and have a long history of interaction between each other and their different producers.  Plus, my most favorite idol of all is from 765pro.

But, I’ll admit there are some idols in ML who have pretty good artwork.

Ironically, I’m also a little bias towards Side M because of Jupiter and the other cool male idols since I can relate to cool guys.


But, above all, one should like whatever they want regardless of what other people say.  Everyone has different tastes.
Title: Re: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: terucchi on May 29, 2016, 07:28:39 am
Thank you for your answers. That gave me a little more insight on how you liked mobile games. I researched CG and ML a bit more and i admit the number of idols is a recipe of disaster. SM is still OK, not hundreds like the others which is like how do you decide who to use but thanks anyway. The bias in fandoms towards pioneer units like in the LLSIP fandom, which some hate LLSunshine just because its not u's and how they love u's which looks like how people here likes 765PRO more than others but its still understandable.

Sent from my IVO V5 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: mariokirby on May 29, 2016, 09:39:21 am
I researched CG and ML a bit more and i admit the number of idols is a recipe of disaster.

Well, ML has a lot less idols (about 37) when compared to CG which has like 200 idols (though not all are voiced).  While there's a lot work done on the spin-offs, it's going to be challenging for them to achieve the same recognition without something significant (like a console game which is tough just by itself).

There's actually an irony in that there's a lot of people who really like CG since it became really popular with the anime and Starlight Stage.

But, as I said before, you should like whatever you want regardless what other people say.

EDIT: clarified some points after reading Cael's post
Title: Re: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: Cael K. on May 29, 2016, 09:57:08 am
For me, when I think about all the mobile games and where they fit in the grand machinations of NBGI... they seem to be something to keep the franchise alive and fresh in people's minds until the next console release. Sure there's a lot of idols, but I think the entire point was to let the fandom fandom over everyone, and then for NBGI to respond to that fandom and acknowledge it. There's no shortage of art or doujin and stuff, and the most popular Cinderella Girls characters are getting voices... then songs and CDs, and even spots in an anime, which I don't think anyone imagined would happen. The fandom has been fed quite well, I'd say, and the cycle it's created is quite healthy.

Though to be honest, if someone says they don't like either of them, I can totally see it. The mobile games aren't exactly filled with gameplay, and at least for Cinderella Girls, the vast majority of them only have their quotes for development. I honestly think that's kinda the point - I think Namco'd rather reverse import canon from the fandom, than to make canon and restrict the fandom to deal with it - but regardless, some people see the lack of official development and don't like it. I can't call that reason misguided, 'cause it ain't. People just like different things.

... Although Cinderella Girls got popular enough to have an anime and rhythm game. I find this hilarious. And awesome.
Title: Re: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: mariokirby on May 29, 2016, 10:04:09 am
they seem to be something to keep the franchise alive and fresh in people's minds until the next console release.

I was going to say something about that.  Don't know why I didn't mention it.  But, I had a theory that the spin-offs helped keep 765pro "fresh" until their next console game.  I guess people, in general, get sick of seeing the same thing.  So, by focusing the attention away from the main series for some time (like when CG is getting the spotlight), 765pro was able to keep cool and fresh until their next console game.
Title: Re: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: terucchi on May 29, 2016, 12:49:37 pm
I kinda want to see CG / SM console game or a rhythm for SM tho~

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Title: Re: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: haruna57 on February 11, 2017, 03:46:35 pm
Hello!
I'm kinda curious about sidem
Apparently bamco has released a video about sidem
Is it true that they going to make a deresute, SideM version? Because the name on the title says "THE IDOLM@STER SideM Live on St@ge" or is it just another live concert?
Title: Re: Ask Questions Thread
Post by: Hime Idol on February 11, 2017, 09:50:04 pm
Hello!
I'm kinda curious about sidem
Apparently bamco has released a video about sidem
Is it true that they going to make a deresute, SideM version? Because the name on the title says "THE IDOLM@STER SideM Live on St@ge" or is it just another live concert?

As far as we know it's another mobile game.