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Author Topic: iDOLM@STER 2!!  (Read 590615 times)

animagic4u

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #2880 on: July 07, 2011, 08:22:13 pm »
SP had some great hacks XD I remember seeing Kotori, Cineria, Yumeko...

I guess SP models would be easier to edit, though. I wonder if there's a fan out there that would be willing to re-do an iM@S2 model to get these results...XD

They could rip from L4U. Seems easy enough. However they'd have to reconfigure it for im@s 2.

Rihsa

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #2881 on: July 07, 2011, 08:24:52 pm »
First up, welcome!

Actually, I have to stand against the belief that spriting costs more than modeling. Spriting, specially for recent sprites, is just a matter of drawing frame-by-frame actions (And some people can cheat their way out of their many animation details). Why I say modeling (mainly compared to iM@S) is more expensive is that you even if they use only one mold all of the cast, to change it to match a character's hairstyle, height, three-sizes, etc... would take time (models of that variety could have over 1,000,000+ polys. And then there's skinning and the clothes. I'm sorry. I'm being a nerd again (And I only heard of most of these stuff. An actual modeler might express this in better and more painful detail).
But I can say the reverse about animation vs. 3D. Animation involves, technically, drawing something over and over and over again until you get to the point where a cartoon is made when all those pictures are played in a sequence. It's why I see more MMD videos on youtube of Miku than I do flowing animations of her. Whenever there is a 2D fan video made for her, it's usually more of a slideshow of timed pictures than an animation.

With 3D animation, once you've made the model, all you have to do is tell that model what to do and make it do it as many times as you need it to, to the point where it probably becomes more profitable than 2D animating. On top of that, I don't think modeling is done little detail by detail like animation. Maybe for specific parts like hair design, clothing design, eyes, etc. But not for basic model parts, so to speak. For example, it's not going to be difficult to change the breast size of a character. There's likely a mechanic already made to simply and proportionally reduce or increase bust size. Same thing goes for general height of the character (which encompasses other body parts like arms and legs).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yLQp4ieptk

I'm guessing editing a character model's size is only a little more difficult or possibly just as difficult as adjusting the size of the dance model in the video, do you know what I mean? It's just a matter of adjusting it all proportionally. Another thing to consider is how detailed you're gonna go with the graphics. Is it Idolm@ster graphics, Atelier Rorona graphics, Final Fantasy graphics? If you compared FF to 2D animation, then I can more easily believe that that 3D animation is more expensive and time consuming. Idolm@ster? I'm more reluctant to believe.

Of course making and adjusting models will take time and effort, but how much compared to animating? Honestly, I don't know. I've never really tried animating or making and moving 3D models. Everything I said is just conjecture based on what I've observed. Ha ha. Who knows, maybe the two forms of art are just equally difficult in general. Unless we can get an animator and modeler to give their two cents, then it's not going to be clear.

Oh, and thanks and pardon me, I don't actually know what I'm talking about. lol

ikuto-sama

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #2882 on: July 08, 2011, 07:24:53 am »
Um, this is a bit off-topic, but I noticed in Haruka's version of Little Match Girl, after she sings "Heroine wa atashi," she winks. I guess it's because she's pretty much the heroine of the iM@S games. I don't know if anyone's ever noticed this, but I know small variations are slipped into different songs for some of the idols and I just wanted to point it out. This is the first one I've found for iM@S 2, anyways. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD2O4MIRZgU&feature=related  :D

Saturos

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #2883 on: July 08, 2011, 07:50:28 am »
Um, this is a bit off-topic, but I noticed in Haruka's version of Little Match Girl, after she sings "Heroine wa atashi," she winks. I guess it's because she's pretty much the heroine of the iM@S games. I don't know if anyone's ever noticed this, but I know small variations are slipped into different songs for some of the idols and I just wanted to point it out. This is the first one I've found for iM@S 2, anyways. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD2O4MIRZgU&feature=related  :D

Makoto gives a wink around the start of Meisou Mind, too. I think, though, it only happens if she leads.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjXpnXmLIrA
at around 0:15-0:17
MAKO MAKO RIIIIIIIIIN!!

Cael K.

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #2884 on: July 08, 2011, 10:57:03 am »
Actually, I have to stand against the belief that spriting costs more than modeling. Spriting, specially for recent sprites, is just a matter of drawing frame-by-frame actions (And some people can cheat their way out of their many animation details). Why I say modeling (mainly compared to iM@S) is more expensive is that you even if they use only one mold all of the cast, to change it to match a character's hairstyle, height, three-sizes, etc... would take time (models of that variety could have over 1,000,000+ polys. And then there's skinning and the clothes. I'm sorry. I'm being a nerd again (And I only heard of most of these stuff. An actual modeler might express this in better and more painful detail).

If were talking different dances, or in fact an undefined yet increasing amount... well, you can animate one character five different times (once per position), and do that once per character (all 13 of them). Now add camera angles, and the fact that you're giving control of the viewing angle to someone who can change it at will.

Or you can just hire five dancers to do the dance once. One model and a few algorithms later, bam. Different outfits? Make a new model, stick a head on it, pop in a few accessories on pre-defined parts of the body, and you're good. No making 1000000000+ frames of animation for different camera angles and outfits.

... Okay, maybe it's more like make 13 models and apply the same skeleton to each, but it's still easier.

You'd also be surprised at how many shortcuts are involved in computer graphics. No one's gonna animate strands of hair individually unless they're making a CG scene, they'll just make the entire hair one big mesh for in-game stuff, and make sure it sways properly. Anyone remember the CEDEC talks? You pretty much pick a few points on the hair mesh, make them move, then modify the positions of the rest of the mesh based on where they go.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 11:01:19 am by Cael K. »
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Ghift

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #2885 on: July 08, 2011, 12:29:21 pm »
It isn't quite a model swap, but I'm fairly sure this is relevant to someone's interests.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm14949672

Clear Blue

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #2886 on: July 08, 2011, 01:48:39 pm »
It isn't quite a model swap, but I'm fairly sure this is relevant to someone's interests.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm14949672
We're talking about 3D models, not this kind of animation. (Or are we?)
"My name's Amagase Touma, A-ma-ga-se To-u-ma, got it?" - Amagase Touma

Ghift

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #2887 on: July 08, 2011, 02:02:59 pm »
We're talking about 3D models, not this kind of animation. (Or are we?)

Oh I know, but part of that conversation involved Jupiter prancing around to the Idol's songs.

Clear Blue

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #2888 on: July 08, 2011, 03:13:04 pm »
Oh I know, but part of that conversation involved Jupiter prancing around to the Idol's songs.
But I don't post it here, I post it somewhere else.
"My name's Amagase Touma, A-ma-ga-se To-u-ma, got it?" - Amagase Touma

Saturos

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #2889 on: July 09, 2011, 01:13:28 pm »
OMG....
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm14961908

my mind has been blown... I just... just..
<- is speechless
MAKO MAKO RIIIIIIIIIN!!

Clear Blue

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #2890 on: July 09, 2011, 02:57:29 pm »
OMG....
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm14961908

my mind has been blown... I just... just..
<- is speechless
Somebody got the lyrics for this?
"My name's Amagase Touma, A-ma-ga-se To-u-ma, got it?" - Amagase Touma

Benpc91

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #2891 on: July 09, 2011, 06:41:57 pm »
The lyrics are in the Nico comments or in the original video description.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx7NXpdJvqI

Normally I avoid this kind of stuff, but this one isn't so bad.

The iDOLM@STER MAD World Service
The Gentlemen's Guide to THE iDOLM@STER

Rihsa

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #2892 on: July 09, 2011, 08:18:16 pm »
Those lyrics are better than what she usually sings for an English adaptation.

Then again, she didn't write them this time. Ha ha.

Ch@osM@ster

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #2893 on: July 09, 2011, 08:53:17 pm »
Hi I'm back its been years LOL

Rihsa

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #2894 on: July 09, 2011, 09:07:04 pm »
Well it's nice to see some people here like English adaptations, fan ones or not. :P Even though I personally don't like Miku-tan's stuff.