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Author Topic: iDOLM@STER 2!!  (Read 590617 times)

Neko-P

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #1080 on: September 23, 2010, 01:58:41 pm »
Japanese stuff should not get a sub. I've heard enough English Naruto I can puke... make it western from the very beginning like Final Fantasy X.

.... You mean dub, right? Where they actually re-voice it? And not sub, where they just add those subtitles to the bottom so we can understand it?

Raestloz

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #1081 on: September 23, 2010, 02:57:38 pm »
.... You mean dub, right? Where they actually re-voice it? And not sub, where they just add those subtitles to the bottom so we can understand it?
Oh, yeah sorry, typo :P 's' and 'd' are neighbors on my keyboard. Will edit it at once

Quote
If they subtitled the game, they would still need to produce it abroad (+advertising, printing, distribution etc etc.) and if they weren't sure if the profit would add up it's not a risk they're prepared to take. If they went all out and re-voiced the characters and/or the songs they would definitely need to know that there is a paying audience and general public willing to buy it and 9001 (£/$ etc.) worth in DLC.
Believe me, Japanese ideas should stay Japanese, especially in entertainment part, be it public or private

Take Ninja Storm as an example and you should understand why: Japan got ideas so unique it is weird. Trying to convert it into English version (not English subbed) is... well... idk...

American Idols won't get DLCs, that's for sure (or British idols, or Indonesian Idols, or Wherever-but-Japan Idols at that)

I heard that some people see machines as more than machines, so I guess seeing 3D models as more than 3D models are not that weird.

Well, it's not the only one of its kind
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Maiku_Ando

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #1082 on: September 23, 2010, 03:15:11 pm »
To clarify a few points since my last post, there already are Asia releases for IMAS - SP and L4U were released under the Asia region,and some did come with English items, not subs but instruction type of stuff. This is actually very common for Japanese games released in Asia, usually they include some limited instructions in Chinese and English. Initial D for the PS3 was done like this. All namco need to do is add in subs. Some Japanese companies are starting to include their own (bad) english subs on DVDs for anime and movies in Asia, its not perfect but its enough to understand it.

An international full release will cost too much, its not just about localisation, its about ratings - everything has to be approved by your country's government agency before it can be released officially, and shops cant sell things which are not rated, in the UK it has to be given a age rating for example, I don't know if/what the US does but I assume they have something similar, my point is to get a game approved, the publisher has to pay for it. Further I think there is something with the region locking related to certification, as far as I know the only "region free" Xbox games are US releases, maybe this has something to do with how the US rates/classifies things being that its an American console, ie something like "if it passes US law then its good for the world with user discretion" kind of thing? I'm not sure how Sony manage it, but someone did say something about that in another thread which i cant find atm.

Oh, yeah sorry, typo :P 's' and 'd' are neighbors on my keyboard. Will edit it at once
Believe me, Japanese ideas should stay Japanese, especially in entertainment part, be it public or private

Take Ninja Storm as an example and you should understand why: Japan got ideas so unique it is weird. Trying to convert it into English version (not English subbed) is... well... idk...

American Idols won't get DLCs, that's for sure (or British idols, or Indonesian Idols, or Wherever-but-Japan Idols at that)

I heard that some people see machines as more than machines, so I guess seeing 3D models as more than 3D models are not that weird.

Well, it's not the only one of its kind
I take issue with a couple of your points there, namely "Japan got ideas so unique it is weird" Every country in the world has ideas which another will call weird, or wrong or whatever. It all depends on your own personal experiences, that dosnt mean that you, or me, our nations etc have any right to say whats right or wrong or weird. If you dont like Japanese ideas, then you have some simple choices, either be careful when buying Japanese stuff, dont buy it, or accept it for what it is. That applies to other places/things/people etc as well.

One of my pet hates is how US game companies, and Anime ones, assume the world is 2 places "original location" and the US. In Japanese games they convert all the jokes and terms into US-cultural specific terms and often ruin a game or anime. Americans know what a "path" and what a "road" is, so why translate it to "sidewalk" ? especially when its actually neither, the characters are standing in the middle of the road - not the pavement/path/ thing next to it. This is why a western release would fail I think. Not to mention a translated dub of the songs wont work because the words wont rhyme any more.

As for the DLC, some US / int games come with DLC, the idea of clothes and songs for idols is a perfect example of how to make DLC work. It works in Asia for IM@S L4U and IM@S SP.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 03:35:28 pm by Maiku_Ando »
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Raestloz

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #1083 on: September 23, 2010, 03:49:27 pm »
To clarify a few points since my last post, there already are Asia releases for IMAS - SP and L4U were released under the Asia region,and some did come with English items, not subs but instruction type of stuff. This is actually very common for Japanese games released in Asia, usually they include some limited instructions in Chinese and English. Initial D for the PS3 was done like this. All namco need to do is add in subs. Some Japanese companies are starting to include their own (bad) english subs on DVDs for anime and movies in Asia, its not perfect but its enough to understand it.

An international full release will cost too much, its not just about localisation, its about ratings - everything has to be approved by your country's government agency before it can be released officially, and shops cant sell things which are not rated, in the UK it has to be given a age rating for example, I don't know if/what the US does but I assume they have something similar, my point is to get a game approved, the publisher has to pay for it. Further I think there is something with the region locking related to certification, as far as I know the only "region free" Xbox games are US releases, maybe this has something to do with how the US rates/classifies things being that its an American console, ie something like "if it passes US law then its good for the world with user discretion" kind of thing? I'm not sure how Sony manage it, but someone did say something about that in another thread which i cant find atm.
Yes, but then again, the game is Japanese. I'm not talking about the language, I'm talking about "the game was built around, and was targeted for, Japanese"

You can't, say, compare an English subtitled iM@S with English subtitled Naruto, both got different genre. People around the world like to kick each others' ass, but producing a girl that will eventually develop that "unstated obvious reason"? not many outside Japan like that idea.

Throw in Futami Twins and you've just got a rating killer.

Quote
I take issue with a couple of your points there, namely "Japan got ideas so unique it is weird" Every country in the world has ideas which another will call weird, or wrong or whatever. It all depends on your own personal experiences, that dosnt mean that you, or me, our nations etc have any right to say whats right or wrong or weird. If you dont like Japanese ideas, then you have some simple choices, either be careful when buying Japanese stuff, dont buy it, or accept it for what it is. That applies to other places/things/people etc as well.

As for the DLC, some US / int games come with DLC, the idea of clothes and songs for idols is a perfect example of how to make DLC work. It works in Asia for IM@S L4U and IM@S SP.

I'm sorry if you are offended by my way of wording, maybe I should clarify:

Quote
Every country in the world has ideas which another will call weird
As you already know (and posted) some of Japan's unique ideas are called "weird" by other countries. Do you see my point here? That means converting a Japanese idea for use outside of Japan could be a bad idea.

That's what I mean by "Japanese ideas should stay Japanese" and "Japan got ideas so unique it is weird. Trying to convert it into English version (not English subbed) is... well... idk..."

I was replying to a comment that was talking about re-voiced iM@S for international version (maybe not globally, one random country, whatever it is, would do). It is impossible to recreate the same experience is what I mean

When I said "American Idols won't get DLC", I mean "American Idols" (as in an American version of THE iDOLM@STER featuring... well... American girls) won't be popular enough to warrant DLCs.

Now, I know there actually is a game titled "American Idol", that game is about karaoke. I'm not talking about that one.



Okay, well I say enough OOT here. Sorry if my post offended any of you, I didn't mean any harm nor sarcasm nor whatnot that could hurt your feelings (or make you think I'm a bad guy).

Have a pleasant day (or good night, it's 8:50 PM here)
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Scotty

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #1084 on: September 23, 2010, 05:08:11 pm »
I don't understand all this localization bickering. Let's not fool ourselves here people. One of the biggest reasons we like iM@S is because it's Japanese in the first place.

Maiku_Ando

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #1085 on: September 23, 2010, 05:29:36 pm »
Okay, well I say enough OOT here. Sorry if my post offended any of you, I didn't mean any harm nor sarcasm nor whatnot that could hurt your feelings (or make you think I'm a bad guy).

Have a pleasant day (or good night, it's 8:50 PM here)
[I cut the quote as its above]
Ok I think we're both actually kind of saying the same thing, and I think maybe I miss understood your previous post. I don't think your a bad guy and you haven't offended me or anything either. When I said "take issue with" I just meant as in "counter argument" as I thought you were saying something different. Apologies for the misunderstanding.

I also think IMAS as a conversion of the game wouldn't work the same way, ie a game set in NY about 3 girls wanting to make it to LA to be stars, and you have to dress them up in different clothes and songs etc - that would not appeal to the male audience at all. However, I think girls would probably love it, and I think they'd buy a lot of DLC actually The point is that you'd have to change so much to make it into that - its not Idolmaster anymore. That what I mean by it not working. That game may sell really well, but its of no interest to me.

I like the Japanese elements in games/animes, the random things like Yukiho digging holes and the like. I actually have no real interest in Idols, I like the characters, I'm interested in the story and I like the songs. If the songs were in English, and the characters were not anime style but 3d real style like FF etc, then I wouldn't be interested in it.

I think IM@S needs to be with fans who like Japanese style stuff, like Anime and JRPG fans. Try and sell it to the average gamer and its going to fail. A remake like above would get on the shelf...in the budget bottom shelf area, because they think thats all its good for. Average gamers just want to kill things, FPS and war games. Girls dont tend to be catered for, and anime fans even less. So a game which appears to be for those is dropped to the "no one cares" section. I think that's why Namco isnt going west with it. They most likely know there are fans out there like us, and I think the "Asia" release was partly meant for us as well - people who understand the cultural elements but not the language. I think Jupiter might be an attempt to slowly change direction, start by making it appeal to both genders, make them a bit older so its not so risky, maybe they are thinking of one day making it international, maybe in IM@S 3 or 4? By then it may have changed enough to work in the west more. Namco wont just be thinking about IM@S 2, they will be working on the big plan for the future - whatever that might be.

On a slightly different note, some people have said "the VAs were already paid" a few times - it doesn't work that way. The VAs must be paid royalties whenever their work is used, it doesn't matter if its the same song from 5 years ago, if its used in IM@S 2, they will have to be paid royalties - from IM@S 2.
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TweenDoriru

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #1086 on: September 23, 2010, 05:52:50 pm »
I don't understand all this localization bickering. Let's not fool ourselves here people. One of the biggest reasons we like iM@S is because it's Japanese in the first place.
Right. But you can bet that some of us would appreciate it if we could understand everything our idol was saying.

I have minimal Japanese knowledge, and it's easy enough to play the game without being fluent (using icomu-master for communications, anyway). But it would be nice to understand the oddball situations that Haruka gets into, or the crazy babbling of the Futami twins.

I could care less if it gets an actual western release...if they added English subtitles and took off the region lock, I'd be happy XD

actually...I'd be pretty happy if they just took of the region lock, but that's beside the point at the moment XD

Scotty

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #1087 on: September 23, 2010, 05:58:22 pm »
Well of course, understanding it would make some of us enjoy it more. This is obvious. What I had meant was that it's heavily Japanese. Like, you know....hmm.

Okay, take this. Would you prefer manga, or a comic? Some of us have no interest in a typical comic, and show more interest in manga because of the fact that it's Japanese. It's different. Culturally, artistically, even physically sometimes. It's what most of us like, and to have people here argue about making iM@S (manga) more american (comic) is just plain silly to me.

TweenDoriru

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #1088 on: September 23, 2010, 06:01:00 pm »
Well of course, understanding it would make some of us enjoy it more. This is obvious. What I had meant was that it's heavily Japanese. Like, you know....hmm.

Okay, take this. Would you prefer manga, or a comic? Some of us have no interest in a typical comic, and show more interest in manga because of the fact that it's Japanese. It's different. Culturally, artistically, even physically sometimes. It's what most of us like, and to have people here argue about making iM@S (manga) more american (comic) is just plain silly to me.
That...I can toast to. ;D

I guess if they ever tried to American-ize it, it would be like a different game entirely just copying gameplay mechanisms. I'm fairly certain we don't have an idol system like that...unless getting your pop-star to do crazy publicity stunts and not land in jail are promotions.

Also, I'm sure it wouldn't be directed toward the same demographic anymore; they'd have to tone it down and everything because more likely than not it would be directed at young girls.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 06:03:24 pm by TweenDoriru »

Neko-P

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #1089 on: September 23, 2010, 11:15:53 pm »
 ... Well... Yeah, I agree, trying to Americanize it would just end up with an entirely different game. The whole idol thing in general is a pretty Japanese thing... But does that mean we can't have English subtitles in one of the game versions? Certainly it can't be that much more work for them.... Or maybe it will be and I'm grasping at straws... *Sigh*

animagic4u

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #1090 on: September 24, 2010, 01:11:45 am »
Even so subtitles still pose problems for people illiterate in Japanese culture.
IE. Puns (which I hate many translations for), humor, references (in the case of Dearly Stars mostly), etc.

Neko-P

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #1091 on: September 24, 2010, 01:16:00 am »
Even so subtitles still pose problems for people illiterate in Japanese culture.
IE. Puns (which I hate many translations for), humor, references (in the case of Dearly Stars mostly), etc.

 Honestly? I'd rather have a little bit of understanding than none at all.

Elixir

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #1092 on: September 24, 2010, 01:39:08 am »
If Vesperia can't even see a western PS3 release, despite a localization already existing, this has no hope. It's under Namco. Maybe if this were an Idea Factory game, it would have a better chance.

Cael K.

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #1093 on: September 24, 2010, 01:58:09 am »
Btw, has there any news on how nbg has been takin' all the heat from the fans?

There was that interview they had (linked previously right after the event), which on the Im@s main site was labeled as an Urgent Announcement. Someone could also watch the week's Im@s Station on Nico, but... the comments honestly scare me.

Also, strange and sad, the official blog has urged their fans to not slander the voice actors. Why this is going on I know, but I still can't agree with.

Also, there's still that fact: The VAs were already paid. Unless Rie Kugimiya got less yen than Imai Asami, NBGI had just wasted some money

Usually from what I understand, people are paid to do a certain amount of content as a role, not really to be the role and do everything asked of them for it. You want them to do more stuff, you'll have to pay them more.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 02:32:58 am by Cael K. »
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Benpc91

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Re: iDOLM@STER 2!!
« Reply #1094 on: September 24, 2010, 02:10:59 am »
If Vesperia can't even see a western PS3 release, despite a localization already existing, this has no hope. It's under Namco. Maybe if this were an Idea Factory game, it would have a better chance.
There's quite a few factors that stopped Namco from localizing it.  Getting the cast back together for all the new stuff, printing copies of a game that many already own, etc.
Note that they were a bit smarter this time and didn't release Graces yet.  Cross your fingers for Graces F.

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