Community > Wiki discussion
Romanization Standardization
Harrason:
--- Quote ---Long vowels
How should long vowels be romanized when lengthened by an additional vowel character?
How should long vowels be romanized when lengthened by a katakana ー ?
--- End quote ---
Same here, aa, ei, ii, ou and uu.
--- Quote ---Particles
Should は, when used as a particle, be romanized as ha or wa?
Should を be romanized as wo or o?
Should へ, when used as a particle, be romanized as he or e?
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Ha should be used so that viewers would understand that は is used, not わ. It may cause confusion, but that can't be helped, because the Japanese knowledge of the viewer is in question here. Maybe we should create a "Romanization Standardization and Clarifications" page?
Anyway, を as wo, and へ as he.
--- Quote ---ん
Should ん always be romanized as n, or as n or m depending on the following sound?
Example: 先輩 : senpai VS sempai
Should ん be romanized as n' when followed by a vowel?
Example:
記念: kinen (in either case)
禁煙: kin'en VS kinen
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Really, its the pronounciation that's in question over here, but even though sometimes its heard as sempai, the romaji is still ん. Therefore, we stick with senpai.
And yes, add the ' please.
--- Quote ---Multiple readings
When multiple pronunciations are possible and the official lyrics provide no furigana, obviously the romanization should be based on the reading that can be heard in the song. However, in rare cases the reading used will vary per idol.
Example: 行く: iku & yuku
What should we do in these cases?
--- End quote ---
Its up to the comprehension of the viewer as both essentially mean the same, other than the pronounciation.
However, in cases where it is proven that its yuku, for instance, yuku must be used.(Like Agent yoru wo yuku) Otherwise, either is fine. In this context, the idol has the proof. Anything the idol sings goes. So modifications just had to be made. Again, the suggestion for "Romanization Standardization and Clarifications" thread.
--- Quote ---Spacing
Should particles be separated from the words or particles they follow by a space?
Example: いつまでも: itsumademo VS itsu made mo
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For me, i consider itsumade as one part, the particle mo, on the other part. This is due to the fact that particles string sentences together, and it gets confusing if its seperated to a person who doesn't know much Japanese because it looked like its part of the words itself. In other words, my answer is "Itsumade mo".
--- Quote ---Should particles following a copula be separated from it by a space?
Example: だけど: dakedo VS da kedo
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This is different. I don't see a need to change things like this one. Dakedo will do fine since the word cannot exist without this particle.
--- Quote ---Should verbs constructed out of multiple verbs be separated by a space?
Example: 抜け出して: nukedashite VS nuke dashite
Example: 振り切り昇る: furikirinoboru VS furikiri noboru VS furi kiri noboru
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The verbs are combined such that they mean different when seperated and readed as one by one, but together, there's a totally different meaning. Similar to how elements fuse to form compounds.
--- Quote ---Should verbs combined by a -te form be separated by a space?
Example: いってしまった: itteshimatta VS itte shimatta
--- End quote ---
I agree with Nanashi on this point.
--- Quote ---Should verbs that have been drawn together be separated by a space?
Example: 超えてく: koeteku VS koete ku
--- End quote ---
Not at all. Ku is a part of Koeteku. Ku cannot be used if there isn't a Koete, and is essential in the entire meaning.
--- Quote ---Should an additional space be used when a space is used in the Japanese lyrics?
Example: そっと目を伏せて 忘れるわ: sotto me wo fusete wasureru wa VS sotto me wo fusete wasureru wa
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I don't know about this either because its really up to the viewer's discretion at this point. However, if it was me, i would either leave it as it is(no additional space) or seperate them as different sentences(Enter).
--- Quote ---Should the explanative の shortened to ん be separated from the copula after it and the word before it?
Example: 変わるんだろう: kawarundarou VS kawaru ndarou VSkawaru n darou
Example: そうなんですか: sou nandesu ka VS sou na ndesu ka VS sou na n desu ka
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N follows the word before it. Therefore it should be "Kawarun darou" and "Sounan desuka" IMO.
--- Quote ---Punctuation
Should ？！。、 be shown in the romanization or not?
Should 「」 be romanized to " ", left as 「」 or not shown at all?
Should ・・・ be romanized to ..., left as ・・・ or not shown at all?
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All these follow the Japanese characters. Since romaji is shown as english, and ? ! . , is used in the english characters, i say we stick with those. That means " " and ... as well.
--- Quote ---Should incorrect punctuation be carried over to the romanization or turned into correct punctuation/omitted?
Example: Shooting Fire!!! : Shooting Fire!!! VS Shooting Fire!
Example: 夢の中で また☆*:包んで*☆: yume no naka de mata ☆*:tsutsunde*☆: VS yume no naka de mata tsutsunde
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It really isn't too much of an issue, but if its me, i'll go with the original. But for the second one where symbols are used, i don't prefer the usage of symbols because they don't fit in english sentences, and meaning doesn't change much or anything, just the tone. Unless the reader wants to read and experience, i don't see why we should keep those.
--- Quote ---Romanization of English and other non-Japanese languages
Should English written in katakana be converted back to English, or should it be romanized as usual/as the Japanese pronounce it?
Example: ミラクル スタートスター！: MIRACLE START STAR! vs MIRAKURU SUTAATO SUTAA!
(Please ignore long vowel and capitalization issues in this example)
--- End quote ---
The Japanese pronounce english words using katakana, and they follow the katakana. Its not used just for the fun out of it. They use Katakana for ease, and they pronounce katakana as it should be. Therefore i suggest keeping the original romaji, especially in song translations.
--- Quote ---If it should be converted back to English, how should 'English' that does not correspond directly with an existing English word be handled?
Example: ヒスってもしかたない
Example: テレビ
--- End quote ---
So that people who don't understand know what the person was actually saying, i would put the original romaji such as "terebi" and add a (Television) after it. However, most had commonsense so i guess it can be omitted. Just "terebi" will do.
If it should be converted back to English, does this apply to English written in hiragana?
Example: ああゆうれでぃ？: aa yuu redi? VS are you ready?[/quote]
Same as above.
--- Quote ---Capitalization
Currently, English (or French, etc.) words shown in katakana will be presented in capital letters in the romanization.
But what about:
Should English words shown in hiragana be romanized in capital letters?
--- End quote ---
I don't know how to go about this one. I understand the need for it to be romanized in capital letters to fulfill viewer-friendly needs, but on the other hand, i agree with what Nanashi said.
--- Quote ---Should Japanese words shown in katakana be romanized in capital letters?
--- End quote ---
No. For the very obvious reason.
--- Quote ---Should English words shown in English in the Japanese lyrics be shown in capital letters, in lower case or should the original capitalization be preserved?
Example: 空の 色が変わってゆく Daylight: sora no iro ga kawatte yuku DAYLIGHT VS sora no iro ga kawatte yuku daylight VS sora no iro ga kawatte yuku Daylight
If the original capitalization should be preserved, should this be done for incorrect capitalization?
Example: Shooting Fire! : Shooting Fire! VS Shooting fire!
--- End quote ---
All letter capitalization applies to english words depicted in Katakana. In cases where real english is shown instead, i say it should be preserved.
--- Quote ---Should the first letter of each line of the romanization be capitalized or not?
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I always do this out of habit and tidiness, but on a must-basis, i don't think so. I'll leave this to how others prefer it to be because i don't really care about this one.
--- Quote ---If punctuation is used, should a ?, ! or . be followed by a capital letter in the romanization?
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Same as above.
--- Quote ---Should the first letters of romanized names of people and places be capitalized or not?
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I say its customary to capitalize them. The language doesn't really matter for this question. Its a question of respect, so they should be capitalized. However, in cases where the name is given as such (First letter wasn't capitalized out of intention) such as "arcadia", i also think its a case of respecting others' wishes, especially since they are the people who made this.
--- Quote ---Pro
The logo's say 765 Production, 961 Production and 876 Production. Common sense (I guess) says Productions. The wiki says both. Which should we go with?
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I would go with Productions, but then again it doesn't really matter to me, so i leave it to you guys.
Nanashi:
--- Quote from: Harrason on July 16, 2009, 07:17:07 pm ---Maybe we should create a "Romanization Standardization and Clarifications" page?
--- End quote ---
I think this is a very good suggestion. Then perhaps we could add small-lettered link to that page at the bottom of the romaji column of every song to make sure it's easy to check whenever needed?
By the way, I can see what you mean for the kawarun darou example. I hadn't thought of it that way yet. To me it seemed more natural that when the particle の is 'shortened' to ん (as in のだ --> んだ) it's the n and d sounds that are being 'pulled together' when o is omitted, but come to think about it, I guess that is just my Western-languages mindset speaking.
And maybe いつまでも wasn't such a great example, so I'll add another one to the original list of questions.
Laburey:
If you come up with common examples, you could use google.
I got "kawarundarou" 88 hits, "kawarun darou" 137 hits, "kawaru ndarou" 6 hits, "kawaru n darou" 175 hits.
Nanashi:
Nice, so that would suggest ru n da is most common then...
*googles*
That is, until you remove rou.
kawaru n da: 250
kawarun da: 5
kawaru nda: 129
kawarunda: 767
Somehow I doubt Google is going to help much... :-\
Edit: experimented with some more common examples like iru n da, aru n desu, omou n desu, iku n da etc., but the results weren't really consistent. (Except u nd gave the least hits every time.)
Laburey:
Well, it was worth a try at least. It just shows that romaji is not "pinned down" as a language. It's still unfinished, you could say.
And all those amounts of hits are pretty small, too. Not a large enough sample, really.
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