About character development.....

[Freedomzz]

I'm kinda curious, how do you define a character in fiction "average" or "developed"?

For example, if somehow an Im@s fiction revealing Haruka/Uzuki (which most fans tend to accuse them for being one dimensional character (I'm sorry if this statement was "wrong" it's hard to find additional missing info from the wiki in English because lack of popularity on the franchise.....)) backstory, showing their hidden characteristic (and probably changing their personality in certain situation), does Haruka/Uzuki become well-rounded/developed character?

Kinda wish moment like this happen later in the PS4 game

[Okayu]

Haruka already has her backstory revealed. 

[animagic4u]

I think in order to make a well rounded character you have to show (not tell) what a character will do when confronted with a situation and back it up with why they would do it (this part may not be explicitly told to readers/viewers).

As a HarukaP, I don't see Haruka as a one-dimensional character. It's fun watching her in many different situations (communications) and hearing what she thinks about all of the things that happen to her on a daily basis.
I also don't feel like not having an interesting backstory makes for a weak character. See: Aikatsu.

[MetalPredat0r]

With characters, I think having a great backstory helps, and as animagic said, having characters reacting to certain situations also helps. Essentially, I want more than just "here's an idol, this is her gimmick, there ya go".

One big example for me is Miku Maekawa from Cinderella Girls. When she was first introduced, she was just a stereotypical anime cat girl that you see everywhere else. Then the anime came out and showed her jealousy and need to improve herself and then she suddenly became a developed character.

That's why my favorite iM@S characters are Main World 765 + Million Stars due to having more than just a pretty face and a silly gimmick.  They have defined personalities and some even have major backstories that drive them such as Chihaya, Makoto, Shiho, and Momoko.

[Freedomzz]

Thanks for the input so far

Also...

I also don't feel like not having an interesting backstory makes for a weak character. See: Aikatsu.

Do you mind elaborate this and why the Aikatsu was spoliered?

Edit: Adding forgotten words.....

[animagic4u]

One big example for me is Miku Maekawa from Cinderella Girls. When she was first introduced, she was just a stereotypical anime cat girl that you see everywhere else. Then the anime came out and showed her jealousy and need to improve herself and then she suddenly became a developed character.

This is an interesting point in terms of anime, but I feel like real life idols still tend to be that gimmicky.

Also...Do you mind elaborate this?

Sure.
I think that it's possible to have a perfectly normal backstory and still have an interesting character. The average girl can still be put into difficult situations that test her.
Just because something tragic hasn't happened in her past doesn't mean she can't have dimension. Having an easy, normal life is actually the perfect build up for putting a character through a lot of stress and really testing them. They'll have a lot of things to deal with that they're not used to which gives them a lot of room to build their character.

For instance, Uzuki is a normal girl who seems to have grown up in a rather normal and stable situation. (CG Spoilers)
When she becomes an idol, things start going well for her until everything starts to fall apart around her. The project she's working on is threatened, her friends and unit members start to move away from her, and she is forced to deal with kind of troubles she's never felt before

[MetalPredat0r]

This is an interesting point in terms of anime, but I feel like real life idols still tend to be that gimmicky.

Right. Although I have different expectations between reality and fiction. In reality, I know that idols are mainly there to entertain onstage, TV, etc. so having a gimmick makes sense in terms of entertainment.

In fiction, i.e. iM@S, I usually expect more than just a gimmick since you're trying to tell a story/shown us the characters in addition to entertaining. Although this isn't helped that some of the extremely gimmicky/bland idols don't have voices, let alone CDs and songs. >_>

[animagic4u]

Right. Although I have different expectations between reality and fiction. In reality, I know that idols are mainly there to entertain onstage, TV, etc. so having a gimmick makes sense in terms of entertainment.

In fiction, i.e. iM@S, I usually expect more than just a gimmick since you're trying to tell a story/shown us the characters in addition to entertaining. Although this isn't helped that some of the extremely gimmicky/bland idols don't have voices, let alone CDs and songs. >_>

Yeah I agree on this point. That's exactly what I'm looking for in fiction.

[Okayu]

Although this isn't helped that some of the extremely gimmicky/bland idols don't have voices, let alone CDs and songs. >_>

I'd say it's because they aren't interesting that they haven't been voiced. After all who gets voiced is often picked by popularity, and if a character is too forgettable to be popular it's unlikely they'll be picked to be expanded on.

Think of it like the character design process, but instead of it being behind closed doors and deciding what doesn't work themselves, they just throw whatever at CG and see which appeals and which doesn't.

[mariokirby]

For example, if somehow an Im@s fiction revealing Haruka/Uzuki (which most fans tend to accuse them for being one dimensional character) backstory, showing their hidden characteristic (and probably changing their personality in certain situation), does Haruka/Uzuki become well-rounded/developed character?

Kinda wish moment like this happen later in the PS4 game

First off, I strongly disagree with the statement that Haruka's one dimensional and has no background story. 

The more knowledgeable im@s fans have pretty much summed it up already.

Haruka already has her backstory revealed. 

As a HarukaP, I don't see Haruka as a one-dimensional character. It's fun watching her in many different situations (communications) and hearing what she thinks about all of the things that happen to her on a daily basis.

Also, here's another small analysis another Haruka fan had made awhile back.  Go to question number 3.

http://forum.project-imas.com/index.php/topic,2358.msg62925.html#msg62925

I think that it's possible to have a perfectly normal backstory and still have an interesting character. The average girl can still be put into difficult situations that test her.

I agree.


I don't know why most fans would say this about Haruka.  I'm very convinced that those people don't know much about im@s, so you shouldn't take their opinions seriously.

I'm not considered as one of the im@s experts, but I feel Haruka has a background story and character development. 

(I'll admit, not knowing Japanese does hold me back from fully understanding the individual im@s character.  But, I do make an attempt going through the main games, dramas, etc and see what the experts say about it.)


Off topic:

I would love to learn more Haruka from anyone that's knowledgeable about her.

[Freedomzz]

Wonder why I didn't ask to clarify earlier if some of my knowledge was absurdly flawed in the first place, my forgetfulness disgust me.....

If your opinion is "different", do you mind answer my very first question?

and thanks for the info

[MetalPredat0r]

For example, if somehow an Im@s fiction revealing Haruka/Uzuki (which most fans tend to accuse them for being one dimensional character) backstory, showing their hidden characteristic (and probably changing their personality in certain situation), does Haruka/Uzuki become well-rounded/developed character?

I don't know why most fans would say this about Haruka.  I'm very convinced that those people don't know much about im@s, so you shouldn't take their opinions seriously.

I'm not considered as one of the im@s experts, but I feel Haruka has a background story and character development. 

(I'll admit, not knowing Japanese does hold me back from fully understanding the individual im@s character.  But, I do make an attempt going through the main games, dramas, etc and see what the experts say about it.)

Not sure if they literally mean she has no personality or backstory (that'd be too extreme of a complaint) it's probably that the personality/backstory itself doesn't interest them.

Like with me. I'm not saying she's boring and has nothing to her, it's just that I personally don't have much interest in Haruka since she feels a bit vanilla for my tastes. I know, I like Uzuki so much yet I say Haruka is too vanilla for me. Am I hypocritical? No, mostly because they're both vanilla, but in different ways.

Haruka's vanilla is of the "I value my friends" variety. She does everything in her power to help out her friends or really anyone beside her. Uzuki's vanilla is of the "I want to reach my goal" variety. She wants to better herself and become the best person she can possibly be. Not saying they don't exhibit both traits respectively, it's just one has it more than the other. I prefer Uzuki's determination and self-improvement motives over Haruka's friendship and togetherness. Not saying Haruka's motives are a bad thing, it's just I personally attach to Uzuki's motives more.

I overall don't think Haruka is a bad character, just not one that catches my attention too much. For me, it's a case that it's not the character that's bad, it's just everyone surrounding her is more interesting to me.

[Freedomzz]

In short, "the complaint" was probably one of sad fact of reality that even unpopular franchise (in the west) was plauged by haters/malicious trolls to dissuade anyone to even respect it.....

[ChocoCats]

I don't know why most fans would say this about Haruka.  I'm very convinced that those people don't know much about im@s, so you shouldn't take their opinions seriously.

People like Haruka because she's kind and considerate. People don't like Haruka because she's not that interesting of a character. I fall for the latter.

In fiction, i.e. iM@S, I usually expect more than just a gimmick since you're trying to tell a story/shown us the characters in addition to entertaining. Although this isn't helped that some of the extremely gimmicky/bland idols don't have voices, let alone CDs and songs. >_>

Gimmicky/Bland idols don't have voices because they're gimmicky/bland. However, that doesn't stop some of them from getting a voice (aka the anime).

In short, "the complaint" was probably one of sad fact of reality that even unpopular franchise (in the west) was plauged by haters/malicious troll to dissuade anyone to even respect it.....

That's Genei Ibun Roku ♯FE in a nutshell (and many others like FE Fates). Can't blame them =v

Though, that applies to popular franchises, too. Youtube is a wonderful place for those. Doesn't help that a lot of anime stuff have bad reputation (and for a good reason, too).

[Yukibro]

I'm kinda curious, how do you define a character in fiction "average" or "developed"?

Change over time. If you're developing a building, you're using a basic structure and adding onto it in various ways until the end product becomes more than that basic structure. In a similar way, developing a character means that they start off with a basic idea or impression yet end up different in the end through changing experiences. If a character goes from Point A (the start of an anime, let's say) to Point B (its end) and largely remains the same character, then that's what I would consider "average," though I'd rather use undeveloped instead.

On that note, I think the issue with iM@S as far as character development (and reflection on that) goes is that the various media are NOT going to be consistent. Let's look at Haruka. Haruka in the games is not entirely the same as Haruka in the anime or even Haruka in one of the manga or novels. That's not really a bad thing, since there may be certain works that can show a different side to the character, but I think there are clear basic ideas of Haruka as she is that can be traced throughout. You have basic things like her tripping and her baking skills or her passion for singing and becoming an idol. Yet certain other traits she has shown, from the extent of her kindness to her personal insecurities to even small quirks that come around in certain situations, are not going to be reflected the same way all the time. Like the anime presents her personality and insecurities around her concern for the other idols being together like she had hoped, while TWIAO plays off how both Haruka and Producer think and act similarly to show how she internalizes some of her concerns and tries to push herself too hard at times. This may be where personal taste comes into play, but I think an effective portrayal of any character, not just Haruka, is being able to establish those basics and then present a challenge to them AND make them convincing.

This can go on further, but all I wanted to point out was that the same character can be seen in different ways, and it's up to the skills and attention of the writer to convince us that the interpretation is valid. Different strokes is a thing for sure, since what attracts you isn't guaranteed to attract me, but I guess that's what discussion is for. _{Character forumssssss} 

I also don't feel like not having an interesting backstory makes for a weak character.

Also this. A backstory is a means, not an end. Its potential to help make a character "interesting" can backfire just as badly as it could succeed, and not every character needs one.