Username: Password:

Author Topic: U.K. Man Sentenced for 'Prohibited' Manga Drawings.  (Read 3257 times)

DeviantProtagonist

  • Producer
  • *****
  • Posts: 998
  • 本当にありがとう, あずみん.
U.K. Man Sentenced for 'Prohibited' Manga Drawings.
« on: October 20, 2014, 04:47:31 am »
www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2014-10-19/u.k-man-sentenced-for-prohibited-images-of-manga-children/.80103

Quote
The Teesside Crown Court of Middlesbrough, England convicted 39-year-old Robul Hoque of 10 counts of possessing prohibited images of children. However, the children depicted in the images were all drawings. Hoque is believed to be the first man in the country brought to court solely over manga and anime images. The court sentenced him to nine months in prison, but the sentence will be suspended if Hoque maintains good behavior and follows the court's requirements for two years.

Hoque's defense attorney Richard Bennett said, "This case should serve as a warning to every manga and anime fan to be careful. It seems there are many thousands of people in this country, if they are less then careful, who may find themselves in that position too."

Police seized Hoque's computer containing 288 still and 99 "prohibited" moving images, none of which were real people, in June 2012. The images are classified as prohibited because they depict young girls, some in school uniforms, and some exposing themselves or engaging in sexual activity.

Hoque initially denied the 20 charges of possessing prohibited images of children but later plead guilty to 10 specimen charges.

This marks Hoque's second conviction regarding possession of drawn child pornography. He was prosecuted in 2008 for possessing "Tomb Raider-style” computer-generated pictures of fictional children. A jury convicted him on six counts of making “indecent pseudo-photographs” of children, another first in the U.K. Hoque denied these charges but was required to complete a sex offender treatment program.

Judge Tony Briggs told Hoque in court after his most recent conviction, "You are an intelligent man. You certainly should have been aware of the risk of indulging in accessing this material, and you acknowledge your foolishness and guilt. This is material that clearly society and the public can well do without. Its danger is that it obviously portrays sexual activity with children, and the more it's portrayed, the more the ill-disposed may think it's acceptable."

Talk about a new precedent for the following shitstorm.
Suddenly, bow-wow-wow~. :3

Scotty

  • 961Pro President
  • Global Moderator
  • Producer
  • *****
  • Posts: 1320
  • Kuroi Shachou
Re: U.K. Man Sentenced for 'Prohibited' Manga Drawings.
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2014, 08:36:50 am »
Western societies tend to have a stick up their butt when it comes to things involving sex, ironically.
Laws that are upheld solely because 'maybe this might happen' should have no place in reality. Not until there is definitive proof.

SakuraMaxX

  • Producer
  • *****
  • Posts: 688
  • (/・Д・)/NO!
Re: U.K. Man Sentenced for 'Prohibited' Manga Drawings.
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2014, 08:46:54 am »
Video games cause violence and sexism

Naryoril

  • Producer
  • *****
  • Posts: 914
Re: U.K. Man Sentenced for 'Prohibited' Manga Drawings.
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2014, 09:13:31 am »
i always thought child pornography is forbidden to protect the children which are forced to act as "models"... But that isn't an issue at all with drawn pictures.

and on the basis of "and the more it's portrayed, the more the ill-disposed may think it's acceptable" all bank robberies and killing in movies must be forbidden as well.

not that i'm interested in this material, but this is just stupid. aren't delusional court decisions like this usually made in the US?

Setsuna

  • Producer
  • *****
  • Posts: 1169
Re: U.K. Man Sentenced for 'Prohibited' Manga Drawings.
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2014, 01:32:02 pm »
Historically (As in legal historically) child pornography was a crime because it was in fact evidence of another crime (namely child prostitution etc).

Of course, it's not quite the case now, where there actually needs to be no victim for an action to be a crime.

The current ruling isn't that surprising, only because of the fact the UK has had a history of having very overreaching laws, particularly when it comes to children. There are quite a few cases where couples have been deemed unfit to keep their children because of the decision of a welfare worker in the employ of the government.

(I don't have the link to an example, although I do recall that there was a couple who were deemed too stupid to have children a few years back. Apparently having an IQ in the mid 80s is deemed stupid enough, I guess. The case ran for several years, with the council appealing every step of the way, and even attempted to prosecute one of the judges for 'ruling the wrong way'.)

You'd think it'd end there, but not really. The UK and Australia have very similar legal systems (We share the same legal background, and you even used to be able to appeal Australian Decisions in a UK court) and here's something to wrap your head around.

Australia is the only country in the world which has in its legal code 'appears to be' as part of its criteria to determine if a criminal breech has occurred.

Or to be more precise, any image of someone who appears to be under the age of 18 is considered to be child pornography. This is due to the fact that a minor cannot legally provide consent.

This causes quite a legal quandry, for a variety of reasons.

I've been called up as an expert witness over one such case (Which I am legally not allowed to identify, on threat of prejury) where I was required to give my expert opinion where a line depiction of a person who legally did not exist was over the age of consent.

I had a fun hour in the court room, and was examined and cross examined. Point of law was made that I could not say that the person did not exist, and consequently the question was invalid. I was required to actually make the determination.

I've also been called up to provide an expert opinion if an adult, (who has a passport who can certify that she was over the age of 25) appeared to look like a child, and therefore images of her were considered child pornography, due to the fact her IMAGE did not appear to be able to give consent.

In the second case, the said image was on her boyfriend's phone, and she suffered stunted growth, and the phone was inspected when she arrived into the country with said boyfriend. The image in question was NOT taken in Australia.

... That 30 minutes in the court room was downright insulting. I was not allowed to point out the fact that the woman in question was in fact legally able to provide consent, due to the fact she was, you know, 25, and quite able to make decisions for herself.


In more mundane cases, I've been in discussions with various legal people previously about defining a 'legal body' due to the previous discussion, and it actually caused significant legal issues... with the Anti-discrimination Act.

Namely, it prevented women (and some men) of certain body shapes from legally participating in the adult industry, EVEN THOUGH they were legally old enough to provide their consent.

(Or in short? You cannot discriminate employment due to age, sex, gender, martial status, disability, or you risk significant fines and jail time. Thing is, if you DON'T... well, you get arrested for the IMAGE failing the 'appears to be' test, and you just end up in jail and on the sex offenders list.)

I heard last that the UK thought the Australian law was good (somehow) and was looking to introduce said provisions to their act. I didn't follow it all the way through.

But yeah, you'd be surprised what legal fun you can have with child pornography of persons who do not exist.

(There's other countries with various laws surrounding sex and depictions thereof, but they're more based around obscenity clauses. Or basically 'We don't like showing anyone images of anyone having sex/Particular groups having sex (Singapore and Mass Effect, as an example)' and they're actually more clear cut, because they focus on the actions most of the time, not guesswork.)
Games are streamed at www.hitbox.tv/Aliciana/
No focus, any platform, suggestions welcome

Currently accepting Platinum Stars requests: http://forum.project-imas.com/index.php?topic=2575.0

http://forum.project-imas.com/index.php?topic=2415 - My technical notes on good quality recording.

MetalPredat0r

  • Producer
  • *****
  • Posts: 1571
  • No Copyright Law in the Universe is gonna stop me!
    • Follow me on Twitter if you want.
Re: U.K. Man Sentenced for 'Prohibited' Manga Drawings.
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2014, 04:55:15 pm »
Jack Thompson would be proud! XD!

On a serious note, this kinda boils down to "What Measure is a Fictional Character?" Because it is somewhat worrying that people can get prosecuted for a drawing, of all things.

And as Setsuna said, the UK is infamous for having rather over-the-top and rather absurd prosecutions.

not that i'm interested in this material, but this is just stupid. aren't delusional court decisions like this usually made in the US?

Its not really that US court decisions are delusional, its just that US laws have WAY too many abusable loopholes that those who are completely guilty of a crime get off scott-free due to how the Constitution is written. Need I remind one of a Mr. OJ Simpson?
Haikus are easy
But sometimes they don't make sense
Refrigerator

Naryoril

  • Producer
  • *****
  • Posts: 914
Re: U.K. Man Sentenced for 'Prohibited' Manga Drawings.
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2014, 06:16:37 pm »
Its not really that US court decisions are delusional, its just that US laws have WAY too many abusable loopholes that those who are completely guilty of a crime get off scott-free due to how the Constitution is written. Need I remind one of a Mr. OJ Simpson?

I was more thinking about Stella award type rulings (being awared 2.9 million USD reparation after spilling hot coffee on yourself, by yourself). That's not using loopholes, that's just delusional.