THE iDOLM@STER > Other iM@S discussion

I Hate Other iM@S derived works

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Okayu:

--- Quote from: Virgofall on September 20, 2014, 04:36:40 am ---Given that the game initially had you focused on one idol and one idol only in its origins (from my understanding; I've never played the arcade or X-Box versions) it makes sense to provide different sorts of characters that people would like to deal with, whether it's the haughty Iori, hyperactive Yayoi or shrinking violet Yukiho. Ultimately, each of the original girls began as fitting a stereotype, then given elaboration, becoming fuller-featured characters.
It's whether or not they can be more than their stereotype, and how much it's emphasized, which worries me more. I don't think I'd have minded the introduction of new idols in the franchise, but they could've gone about it much differently than they did. There's definitely character types and roles they could have brought in and elaborated on that originated in the mobile games, and despite their lack of realism, they could've been just as good as the main core given some polish and effort - many, though, I agree can't be redeemed.

--- End quote ---
Actually I'm pretty sure even the arcade game let you do units, but If I remember correctly in that and the xbox game you had to have successfully produced a solo idol first which makes sense. And actually the idols were pretty developed to begin with. The xbox game and part of SP is all reused content from the arcade version with new models. All the xbox version added was a few extra commus and Miki's routes. SP added a few more commus and it's story modes. Or rather arcade games and mobile games work differently and thus have different content. With an arcade game you want people to keep coming back so each character was given a sort of route and a good amount of commus. You could only pick a few commus at a time depending on how good you were, plus 9 girls in total to produce, so that's quite a bit of time and money there if you had wanted to see everything back before it got ported. The arcade game itself was in development since 2001 so this wasn't exactly a rushed product either. On the other hand mobile games goes with a quantity method in a different sense, gotta catch em' all, get all of the cards of all the idols you like and you'll get a few more lines and new pictures. While mobile makes it easy to release a ton of girls and update frequently, it's not exactly the best place to introduce them and keep them there. You have to give them something deeper. Even DS started as it's own full game with 765 on the side. As for the ML's potential I'm just not seeing it. As said before some of these characters are not interesting even at a concept level. I'd rather look at what is than what could be, and what is right now is not impressing me at all.

Virgofall:

--- Quote from: Okayu on September 20, 2014, 01:49:51 pm ---And actually the idols were pretty developed to begin with. ...The arcade game itself was in development since 2001 so this wasn't exactly a rushed product either.
--- End quote ---
I don't disagree with those things. I just meant that, even though the core 13 are developed, fleshed-out characters, they can each be distilled to a core personality type - of course we know that Yukiho is more than the shy androphobe we see at first glance. There is much, much more to her than that - but if someone were to just point at a picture of Yukiho and ask, "what is that girl?" you probably aren't going to go that far in depth to her character. You'd just describe her in those few words. Hopefully this makes a bit more sense? It's not to say that the idols were not developed to begin with, but I'm sure they began on a concept board as just the base type.
You can't do that with most of the mobile characters - there's nothing to take from them EXCEPT that personality type. Describe them in those few words, and voila, you're done. Not so great.

I also don't disagree that what it is now isn't particularly appealing.

animagic4u:

--- Quote from: Virgofall on September 20, 2014, 11:47:00 pm ---You can't do that with most of the mobile characters - there's nothing to take from them EXCEPT that personality type. Describe them in those few words, and voila, you're done. Not so great.

--- End quote ---

For ML, however, there is an actual storyline and event plots that help develop a sense of the characters' personalities.
The short stories are kind of comparable to the short day-to-day commus in iDOLM@STER OFA, but they tend to have a story that goes for several short episodes.

The events, comics, flavor text, and birthdays really help solidify a personality type into a fully fledged character.

That being said, however, I don't actually like all the ML characters. There are a certain few I can't stand. For the most part, I still find them enjoyable.

RisingStar:
Whoa, strong feelings in this thread. I guess I'll throw in my two cents. I strangely like when this topic comes up.

My initial feelings were the exact opposite of most in the thread. I welcomed more idols at first, but it was when voices were given to CGs and more were being created that I started to get a bit annoyed. I realized the sheer number of idols was holding CG back, and it doesn't help that it's extremely lazy in developing the idol's personality beyond their quirk. The music in CG is great and most CGs have very nice designs, but without substance they're beginning to fall flat. With ML, I believe they were handed everything in order for them to catch up to CG in terms of popularity and that push backfired significantly. The ML girls are actually really nice after listening to the drama tracks, reading translated lines, and their manga is shaping up to be pretty good. Although, there are a few MLs whose designs/voices/etc. still get on my nerves.

But here's a question I like to ask: what do you think would be most beneficial to CG/ML? And don't say "REMOVE THEM FROM THE FRANCHISE" out of spite, it's not very productive and, if it were to happen, would certainly tick off the fans who like them.
CG: I've said it before, but I'd wrap up the Cinderella Masters around 50 and then build off that cast. That's just to match with the now expanded 765. CG severely lacks in keeping their idols interesting due to its popularity-centered nature. Getting voiced is an achievement, but all goes quiet after they're voiced. I see it as the fans saying, "Yay, [insert CG] is voiced! On to the next."
ML: I actually haven't thought much about ML because it's showing improvement. The LTHs have shown an improvement in terms of music, idols are represented much more equally than the ones in CG, and they now have a story-driven manga to help out with developing them. They seem to be giving things a bit more thought than CG, at least.

Okayu:

--- Quote from: RisingStar on September 21, 2014, 01:16:00 pm ---My initial feelings were the exact opposite of most in the thread. I welcomed more idols at first, but it was when voices were given to CGs and more were being created that I started to get a bit annoyed. I realized the sheer number of idols was holding CG back, and it doesn't help that it's extremely lazy in developing the idol's personality beyond their quirk. The music in CG is great and most CGs have very nice designs, but without substance they're beginning to fall flat.

--- End quote ---
How should I put this? They weren't exactly hiding that approach with it's "over 100 girls to produce!" right from the beginning. Unlike pokemon when you're making human characters they sort of need a more detailed personality, more so when GamiP claims this to be the appeal of the franchise. There are ways to handle characters with less personality, but again that's not the case for imas.


--- Quote from: RisingStar on September 21, 2014, 01:16:00 pm ---But here's a question I like to ask: what do you think would be most beneficial to CG/ML? And don't say "REMOVE THEM FROM THE FRANCHISE" out of spite, it's not very productive and, if it were to happen, would certainly tick off the fans who like them.

--- End quote ---
Although I get very annoyed with what has been dropped upon us these past few years these characters are popular and still make money so it can't be helped. Besides I'd be upset if it were the other way around too.
CG: The anime has 30 girls shown thus far, 10 per type. I think this is a pretty good amount where there's not too many or too few, compared to over 100 anyways. I thought it'd be cool if they had an SP kind of thing where there was three versions split by type. So basically CG cute version, cool version, and passion version although with fancier names of course.
ML: I'm not sure what to do with them honestly. I know it's their gimmick, but I would kind of prefer if they had their own production. As it is now it just feels like they're riding on 765's popularity instead of making a name for their own like CG did. I know they're trying more ML only stuff but I still get this impression. Also being from different productions hasn't stopped people hanging out before like Takane and Hibiki when they were in 961 and DS in 876.
I guess my view is overall as in games and productions I'd want them separate, but maybe give them some crossover albums and such as those can be fun for both sides. For example we haven't heard CG or ML sing any of 765's songs and via versa yet.
Also music wise I don't like ML very much. CG seems likes the genres are all over the place as it changes per character, but with ML the music and lyrics just feel bland to me. What I mean is that to me it seems like they threw some composing in there and didn't really care if it was memorable or not. Also who thought making a tone deaf character who sings was a good idea? This is as bad as early Haruka and Yayoi but they weren't doing it on purpose and have improved.

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