THE iDOLM@STER > THE iDOLM@STER 2
Vic Ireland on translating im@s
JNiles:
I was under the impression that tariffs were partially responsible for the price differences of games in other countries (Brazil?).
It is funny, whenever gas prices come up, people say our gas prices are too low (though this is wrong, because it's taxes that make their gas cost more), but the people on the gaming forums I frequent are a lot less enthusiastic about setting the standard for game prices. Like how games in Europe are priced with the same numbers... only in Euros.
To add to what Setsuna said about the US market, judging by responses on gaming forums, a lot of people here don't even like the current price point of $60. Publishers get around the problem by selling loads of DLC, which also triggers a negative response but people still buy it, and plotting against used game sales.
Daverost:
--- Quote from: TTB on May 11, 2012, 09:49:12 am ---As for IM@S being so expensive in Japan, don't Japanese gamers feel ripped off too like Australian gamers when they see the dirt cheap US prices? How did the standard price become so high compared to the U.S.? I'm thinking of IM@S and all the seiyuu licensing fees... but no really... even like eroge that's just drawings and starving seiyuu abound over there like starving artists everywhere, but still the eroge costs like 100 USD... how do they get away with that? And if they could get away with a higher price, why not just charge more? What keeps the games industry from moving together up to 105 or 110 USD for a new game?
Just thinking about it is bizarre... us consumers here in the U.S. have it really good don't we... :P
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Japan just tends to have really bad sales models. The U.S. sales models operate on "distribute at a lower price so you sell more." Japan sales models operate on "We probably aren't going to sell a lot, so charge a lot." They both kind of perpetuate themselves, but the U.S. sales model tends to make consumer happier and I'd imagine profit margins are roughly the same proportionally (given the differences in population).
It's at its worst with anime, where Japan will charge $60-80 for 2-3 episodes and you can get an entire 12-14 episode set in the states for $50-60. Sometimes a little less if it's sub-only. That's why reverse importing is such a killer for anime. If only Japan would adjust their sales models accordingly, they could sell at the same prices to the same number of people by cutting out the need for imports entirely. More sales would make up for the difference in price.
It's never really been an issue for games, though. The only games I know Japan reverse imports are ones they already have that they just want a dub for and they almost always double dip on those. Very few people do it anyway.
Setsuna:
--- Quote from: Daverost on May 11, 2012, 04:35:43 pm ---Japan just tends to have really bad sales models. The U.S. sales models operate on "distribute at a lower price so you sell more." Japan sales models operate on "We probably aren't going to sell a lot, so charge a lot." They both kind of perpetuate themselves, but the U.S. sales model tends to make consumer happier and I'd imagine profit margins are roughly the same proportionally (given the differences in population).
It's at its worst with anime, where Japan will charge $60-80 for 2-3 episodes and you can get an entire 12-14 episode set in the states for $50-60. Sometimes a little less if it's sub-only. That's why reverse importing is such a killer for anime. If only Japan would adjust their sales models accordingly, they could sell at the same prices to the same number of people by cutting out the need for imports entirely. More sales would make up for the difference in price.
It's never really been an issue for games, though. The only games I know Japan reverse imports are ones they already have that they just want a dub for and they almost always double dip on those. Very few people do it anyway.
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The problem is that Japan can't (or they BELIEVE they can't) - The reverse importing demonstrated that making a significant price discrepancy with a product will have imports go against them. Anime is a good example of it.
The funny part about the Anime model being cited though is this - the Anime industry in Japan (traditionally) isn't even geared around selling the actual BR/DVD. They're mostly incidentals, and are (well, used to be considered anyway. Not so sure now) priced for rentals. Namely, businesses buy them, then you'd rent the thing out to viewers. Part of its high costs are over that.
The rest of it (or most of the rest of it) is 'Most of an anime's revenue is through the merchandising'.
In the US, it's more or less the reverse - A lot of anime in the US doesn't have merchandising backing. Some of the major ones do, but a lot of the licensed stuff doesn't, mostly because the model isn't available.
This even applies to idolm@ster - The game and the anime are designed to support the rest of the fandom.
Japan's Gaming business model actually NOT a bad business model - it is one designed where they do NOT believe there is much room for growth, and that risks need to be hedged (Namely the vast majority of them don't make massive sales, and they want to stay in business). For one, it actually WORKS, without any major clambering around changing laws or massive cost pressures.
Basically, their 'available market' in a lot of cases is fairly small, and the numbers posted are fairly consistent around the 100-200k range, and a lot of companies don't believe that they can expand very much out of that.
Given the current state, it's actually a fairly decent call, because in a lot of cases they're right - they WON'T get the massive sales required. A few have tried to buck the trend and well, they're no longer ongoing businesses. I'd love to see a business case where you could justify selling an eroge to a million people, for instance.
Not all mind you, Capcom's Monster Hunter enjoyed a 2 mill sale hit, and there's Final Fantasy and a few others, but they were planned to be sold on a mass market basis, and take the US model in terms of sales. However, they also have the funds to take a sales miss or two (The recent FF sort of ended up in this catergory.) and they believe the game CAN work to the model.
The US gaming model ONLY works as long as you can SELL the numbers of copies required. Basically, if you want to sell on copies, you better be damn sure that there'll be people to buy them. In the US, the lower price acts as an inducer, but there's been quite a few loss makers even at 40-50 dollars (Sakura Wars 5 comes to mind) but like I said, not every game can work to this model. (Not every game is suited to it, basically.)
Modern Warfare can, it has massive appeal, and their numbers speak for themselves. Ys? You're not going to see a million copies sold - You plan your model accordingly, and in Xseed's case, they kept their operating costs small, because they didn't think bumping the price would work.
This worked well in the past (but this is due to economic factors which are WELL outside the scope of im@s. If you understand what a housing bubble was and know of the massive frauds that happened in the last few years, you MAY have an idea of what I might say if you ask,) but in the current state, won't work now. Consumer sentiment is weak in the US, and consequently, price arbitrage is the only way to make im@s 2 sell in the US, but as I pointed out, you'd suffer a massive wipe in the process in the higher priced country.
Ironically, the only way the industry could survive is to start adjusting inflation up - but it believes it can't do it without suffering a massive loss in sales, therefore breaking its own business model.
Which of course, makes an amusing situation - the US gaming industry now has a really bad business model, due to the incredibly increased risks at low return, and the best part is that if they attempt to correct it (Either start reducing the production budgets, or pushing prices up beyond what's 'expected') we'd see the distortion starting to take things out.
But as I said, the US gaming model is NOT always the best one - the model that works is one where you can make something, make a decent return with as little risk as possible.
In the Japanese Gaming Industry, it's high margin, low sales (What ELSE would you call a 1550 US ownership of im@s 2 to be, really?). In the US it's low margin, massive sales.
Both have their problems, but right now, I'd argue that the US model is actually in more trouble, since it's more difficult to erode a dedicated fanbase which hangs in at high prices (but still possible, just requires more drastic action), than a massive group of people who don't have that dedication, and where you can effect significant changes by smaller movements.
(Best way to test this one is this - Go ask your gamers if they'd accept a 20 dollar price hike on Modern warfare anytime soon (12-18 months). I guarantee that it'd be a revolt against it in the vicinity of about 20% of its base. Then again, I cheat a bit, because Activision had run their market analysis and found that out already and I asked them about it a while ago.)
The question which NBGI would have to address is this - CAN it sell 4x the amount of copies in Japan to soften the loss of revenue per sale on a US release attempt?
The math says 'You'd have to sell about 450k copies pull it off'.
Now do you REALLY believe that it'd happen? NBGI says 'Not on any risk scale we're willing to hedge that revenue stream on'. That's a significant part of the way to a significant breakout, if not a blockbuster.
I like im@s 2 as much as the next person, but I'm not crazy enough to believe that it's going to fly into mass market territory, not in its current form.
ninjamitsuki:
y'know, it's very likely the anime will make it overseas but the games will remain Japan-only.
It's a lot easier to license anime than games, and there are a crapload of anime based on visual novels that got licensed and even dubbed while the source material never made it.
Bro:
--- Quote from: ninjamitsuki on May 12, 2012, 02:14:06 am ---y'know, it's very likely the anime will make it overseas but the games will remain Japan-only.
It's a lot easier to license anime than games, and there are a crapload of anime based on visual novels that got licensed and even dubbed while the source material never made it.
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I'm not sure if this goes here, but it's a topic I'm not very much interested in so I'd like to see someone else research it a bit more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idolmaster:_Xenoglossia
--- Quote ---The series has been licensed by Sentai Filmworks in North America.
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Apparently, Xenoglossia is getting an NA release! Thoughts, opinions, and does anyone care more than I to confirm this? What does this mean for the possibility of the real anime making it overseas?
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