THE iDOLM@STER > THE iDOLM@STER 2
Vic Ireland on translating im@s
ninjamitsuki:
I'm a huge Lunar fanatic and I love what Working Designs did to the Lunar series, and am happy to hear the man in charge of that former company is interested in licensing, but I'm against westernizing iDOLM@STER too much.
However, if they get Jenny Stigile in here somehow I might approve. ;)
Really, if there was a dual audio (english and Japanese voice options) thing and the songs stayed in Japanese I'd be fine. But Working Designs did great job with the English translations of the Lunar songs (I actually prefer them over the Japanese ones), so I'm not too worried as long as we have an option for Japanese... And of course JENNY JENNY JENNY in English!
Honestly, I'm glad that it's the guy who was in charge of Working Designs that's into this. It could be much, much worse. Sure it won't be faithful to Japanese, but Working Designs is no 4kids. Their "localization" was top notch, including songs. Might be sad to see it on something like iM@S, but the handling of songs in Working Designs games was very well done, and the people behind Working Designs really knew how to treat their customers well. But that was probably what caused their demise... They were TOO awesome to last.
And isn't the character designer for iM@S the same one that did Lunar?
I'd honestly love to see a Working Designs-style (I know this is Gaijin Works, but these are the same people behind WD so whatever) localization of iDOLM@STER provided there was dual-audio. It'll let me experience the game in a whole new way, and their writing is top notch.
But seriously. GIMME JENNY STIGILE.
Treemotan:
I apologize for the potential length of this post, though I would like to offer my own thoughts on the matter.
Now, I'm not very familiar with Vic Ireland or the games he's had a hand in licensing. I'll clarify that right now. However, the majority of the debate here seems to be centered around the concept of an English localization of iM@S itself, which is where I certainly can contribute.
I've read through this thread prior to joining, and people seem to have very heated opinions on the matter and I may be buying trouble by going against the general consensus. While I'm certain most of you are sane, rational, individuals, I have been in similar conversations on other forums and my reception was less than warm.
Ah, but I ramble. I suppose I should actually get on with my point now. I apologize if I natter or repeat points. I'm rather tired at the moment.
Personally, I am not against a localization of iM@S. I do not mind if they are given English voices and the songs are translated and re-dubbed. I do not mind if there are age and name changes. I do not mind if there is a setting change.
Why? Because that's probably what it would take to make the series successful in an American market. So long as the personalities and stories of the characters remained untouched and they actually do a good job with the dubbing and changes, I'll be satisfied at the end of the day. Business-wise, it's much more lucrative and viable; and, providing the dub job was actually good, it can leave you with a brand new experience just as good as when you play the Japanese version of the game.
Now, someone mentioned that they should just translate the in-game text and not bother with dubbing. This, my friend, is known as corporate suicide. While the current iM@S fanbase and the anime/manga fandom as a whole certainly won't mind, it wouldn't exactly blow over well with a whopping majority of gamers. This is what the licensers are concerned with. When a company decides to localize a foreign title, they try to do so in a way that makes it appeal to a wider audience than a small niche representing the initial fanbase. It all boils down to profits; if they can't make the game appeal to as wide an audience as possible, they probably won't even cover the expenditures in actually localizing the game. In all reality, the chance of an English-text localized release of the game is even lower than that of a full-on localization, simply because there'd be close to no profit to be gained from such a business venture.
I'm fully confident that iDOLM@STER could definitely be successful over in the States, despite being very outside of the mainstream, popular genres such as shooters and platformers. Of course, this all depends on how it's handled, though I feel that Westernization will occur whether they utterly botch it or not. The fact of the matter is that the general populace tends to be more accepting of things when they emanate their own culture and values. That's fairly basic human behavior: people associate with what they know. Why is it that everyone assumes that resetting the game in America is a bad thing? If everything else ends up turning out good, why is it such a bad thing? Will it really prevent you from enjoying the game? Take a look at the Ace Attorney series- there's a nice example of Westernization done "Wright" (sincerest apologies, I couldn't resist), in a genre you wouldn't expect to be successful to boot. The characters and stories remain intact, merely the language, setting, and names have changed. And it's done very well. I feel that iDOLM@STER can experience that same kind of success, if marketed and dubbed well enough.
Someone also mentioned the possibility of replacing songs entirely. . . Simply translating and dubbing them would actually be cheaper. New songs entirely would require having someone compose a brand new score and a lyricist crafting up lyrics from scratch in addition to the normal recording costs. In other words, not a good idea. While it'd take some extra effort to get the lyrics to meld right, simply translating the original lyrics would be the much more fiscally-conscious decision. This is why dubbing anime back in the 80's and 90's was so expensive- it wasn't possible for them to separate the Japanese voices from the other audio, and thus studios had to literally do everything but the animation from scratch.
JNiles:
I'm quite certain that a localization of IM@S would bomb in the States no matter what. But I notice no one ever talks about an issue with the music itself- even if you completely redid the lyrics to fit in a comfortable number of syllables and changed the pitch of the singers, a lot of the songs are not structured in a way that the American ear is accustomed to. (I can't really speak for other countries) The songs don't flow properly by our standards. I'm not saying that's a bad thing- I would not bother with IM@S songs if they sounded like everything else over here- but I don't think they will work for a large, commercial audience.
It's not a scientific standard, but if you heard the song on the radio and had no prior knowledge of where it came from, would you do a double-take? Then it probably wouldn't belong in an American release. And if they all were like that, then it would certainly fail.
I did a quick runthrough of the IM@S PS3 list, and here's what I think would sound okay, on music alone, based on whether it "sounded Western". Your perception may differ.
Me Ga Au Toki or Kosmos, Cosmos - dance music
My Best Friend - off-Broadway musical
Smoky Thrill - tropical number or early-20th century number (flappers?)
Honey Heartbeat - the chorus is awkward, but the rest can be rapped (badly) over
Ai Like Hamburger - off-Broadway or a commercial jingle
Kyun Vampire Girl - disco beat/groove
Nanairo Button - I would put someone like the Carpenters on this. Seriously, a male/female duet.
Treemotan:
Now, I don't think it'd bomb entirely. It certainly wouldn't be a smash hit, but it wouldn't completely bomb. While it's true that the overwhelming majority of Western gamers tend to favor the blood-and-violence fare, it's naive to say that games focused on social interaction with characters haven't made a presence for themselves overseas. The Ace Attorney series (Investigations and Gyakugen Kenji 2 aside) literally has you spend nearly the entire game socializing with characters in one way or another to obtain information or evidence. The Persona series, while also containing turn-based RPG gameplay, is primarily a social game via the Social Links players make, and is quite similar to iM@S in terms of the social aspect. Catherine is both a puzzle and a social game (less so than Persona), with the social interactions of the player determining both Vincent's own beliefs and potentially the fate of others trapped in the Nightmare. Heck, Harvest Moon even implements some very rudimentary elements of dating and marriage within the game. I could go on with others, but the main point is that these games have had a fairly good amount of success in the West, and the States are more exposed to these type of games than one would assume at first glance.
Secondly, depending on how much they play up the actual romantic aspect of the game and how they advertise, they have a good chance of obtaining a nice periphery demographic in casual female gamers. "Casual" here meaning "doesn't really play a lot of games, but may play a few depending on what they are". Rhythm and dance-themed games have become fairly popular with this demographic, so certainly the dressing up and performing of idols and the rhythm game aspect would appeal to them, I think. The whole concept of teen pop stars seems to appeal to them as well, as far as personal observation can tell me.
As for the music itself, I suppose you have a point. But in the same vein, you would have people that listen to it and just label it as "pop". And in all actuality, the scores of A-pop and J-pop can be surprisingly similar, depending on the song. Structurally, they share many of the same elements and the only difference really lies in how it's phrased and how the lyrics are set up. The languages themselves probably have to do with this, with the actual scores being written to suit the language.
JNiles:
*thinks for a minute* I neglected to account for the popularity of dance/rhythm games, where any song with a decent beat and a melody that's not too awkward will do. But those games focus on rhythm gameplay where you focus more on the beat than the other stuff, so...
I concede that Idolmaster songs are more similar than not to what we know, which is natural since all musical styles are accessible to songwriters. It's the little things that cause problems. I notice how negative reviews of Idolmaster seem to fixate on the high-pitched characters, for example.
As for those other games, I think success is a matter of one's perspective. The second Edgeworth game hasn't been released here, and that is probably due to sales of the first. (Same for Valkyria Chronicles 3 and other games, gah) Persona 3 & 4 are popular, yeah, though there's some pushback from a subset of Shin Megami Tensei fans that doesn't like social links. The music translates pretty damn well, though.
I'm not sure how Catherine got so popular (best-selling game of Atlus's to date?). I think it's due to a combination of clever marketing and focus on older, though not wiser, characters- which Idolmaster doesn't.
If you define success as total sales revenue similar to the home market OR proportional to the size of the targeted market (your choice), then I think a lot of games don't meet expectations.
Late for work so I gotta run, but I feel like I've neglected to mention something. :/
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