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Heya

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Naryoril:

--- Quote from: baruhara on January 03, 2012, 07:49:40 pm ---Huh... That sounds strikingly similar to Shotokan Karate, except obviously without a weapon. Do you ever have occasional sparring with other people practicing iaido, like I do with karate, or is it all kata-oriented?

In any case, I envy you for having the oppertunity to do something that I want to. I don't think there are any facilities that offer any kind of weapons training around here, let alone iaido.

--- End quote ---

No, we don't have sparring sessions, it would simply be way too dangerous. From time to time we fool around with shinais after the training, but that doesn't have to do anything with iaido. Sometimes we practice some kata (especially those that start with a defence) with a bokken, but i wouldn't call that sparring, it's more like a simple coreography to help to understand the situation in which you could use the kata.
Thus iaido requires a quite specific mindset, it's not for everyone. You can see that quite well in the big seminars, where people from all around europe come together (about 150 to 250 people) to train for a weekend, with 6th to 7th dan teachers from the whole continent, and sometimes even an 8th dan from Japan.

It depends where you live. At least in europe there are more iaido clubs than you'd think, but they usually only have a few people training iaido, so it often is a sub section of some other budo club (for example ours also has karate and judo). Just google for it.

baruhara:

--- Quote from: Naryoril on January 03, 2012, 08:01:28 pm ---No, we don't have sparring sessions, it would simply be way too dangerous. From time to time we fool around with shinais after the training, but that doesn't have to do anything with iaido. Sometimes we practice some kata (especially those that start with a defence) with a bokken, but i wouldn't call that sparring, it's more like a simple coreography to help to understand the situation in which you could use the kata.
--- End quote ---

Oh, I see. That makes a lot of sense, actually! Thank you for clarifying.


--- Quote from: Naryoril on January 03, 2012, 08:01:28 pm ---Thus iaido requires a quite specific mindset, it's not for everyone. You can see that quite well in the big seminars, where people from all around europe come together (about 150 to 250 people) to train for a weekend, with 6th to 7th dan teachers from the whole continent, and sometimes even an 8th dan from Japan.

--- End quote ---

That sounds very admirable. I love disciplines that require a lot of focus and concentration, because then you don't get the people who aren't taking it seriously. Having something you can put 100% into is actually rather cathartic.


--- Quote from: Naryoril on January 03, 2012, 08:01:28 pm ---It depends where you live. At least in europe there are more iaido clubs than you'd think, but they usually only have a few people training iaido, so it often is a sub section of some other budo club (for example ours also has karate and judo). Just google for it.

--- End quote ---

I'll do just that, thank you for the advice.

Edited For: A typo.

Cael K.:

--- Quote from: Naryoril on January 02, 2012, 01:07:42 pm ---I hope that was more or less what you wanted to know ;)

--- End quote ---

Heh... really late on these replies here, but thanks. ^^

You do anything special when swinging a sword around, though? Can't be all arm strength, I imagine there's wrist torque involved... and maybe a certain measure of letting the thing swing itself if you've made it go that fast? I mean, I've only heard of doing that with those heavy two-handers, get them going and your hands are only there for guidance, but dunno what all you do for the fast, powerful, and accurate cut.

Naryoril:

--- Quote from: Cael K. on January 07, 2012, 11:49:45 am ---Heh... really late on these replies here, but thanks. ^^

You do anything special when swinging a sword around, though? Can't be all arm strength, I imagine there's wrist torque involved... and maybe a certain measure of letting the thing swing itself if you've made it go that fast? I mean, I've only heard of doing that with those heavy two-handers, get them going and your hands are only there for guidance, but dunno what all you do for the fast, powerful, and accurate cut.

--- End quote ---

You have a tendency for hard questions :D How to make a good cut... i tried to explain that to a 2 "beginners" (one of them has been practicing for one and a half years now) and it's hard to explain even if you can show stuff, written is even harder as you can imagine, but i'll try.

Generally there is one big difference between a european two-hander and a katana: a two hander is (afaik) more of a blunt weapon, a katana is sharp, it's a large knife. If you swing a two-hander at an enemies upper arm (assuming it's not protected) the arm will be broken due to the weight and power of the blow, maybe even torn off. If you do the same with a katana, it will be cleanly cut off.

A good cut with a katana doesn't require power, it needs a good CUTTING technique and speed helps with that. I'll try an example to help you imagine what i mean: if you want to cut an apple with a knife you can put the knife on the apple and just press the knife through the fruit with sheer force. Or you can move the knife back and forth to cut with much less effort. The latter is what makes it a cut. In training we often compare the former method with using an axe to chop wood.

Thus you need a movement in a 90° angle to your cut. Let's assume a standard cut from over your head (In this stance you have the hilt over your head and the sword is pointing back and slightly upwards) vertically downwards. For this cut you need a movement forwards and then backwards. While you hold the sword over your head you only have a light grip on the hilt. The first thing you do is to tighten the grip with your left hand and turn the left wrist forwards. This causes the tip of the sword to move forward. Only after this movement has started you start moving your arms downwards. By the point where you would hit the opponents head, the movement with the left wrist must be completed and the arms slightly stretched, from there it is just a movement with the arms. Due to the circle your arms perform in this movement you get the required forwards and backwards movement. Take a stick or something in your hand (right hand in front of the left) and try it for yourself, it might help to understand it.

As we obviously don't have an opponent in iaido we need to stop the sword again, where depends on the cut/kata. The standard cut stops on the horizontal. The sword tip must be the fastest (and thus make the loudest sound) when you hit the opponent, in this case where the head would be. It's no coincidence that this is the moment where the movement to turn the sword with your wrist is finished at that moment, because the accelaration of the tip comes to an end at that moment. From there you can let the sword move a bit or already start stopping it (honestly i don't know, cleanly stopping the cut is one of the points i'm currently working at).

One thing to add is that all the power and speed of a two handed cut cut comes only from the left arm. The right arm is only there to change the direction (for a diagonal cut for example) and to help stopping the sword (which woulnd't be necessary if there actually was an opponent, his flesh would do that for you ;) ). The katana is a one-and-a-half-handed sword, you can use it with two hands or with one hand. If you use one hand you always use your right hand afaik.

So the short answer would be: A katana cut must be fast and accurate, but not powerful. You use the left hand for the "fast" (and "correct"), the right hand for the "accurate". There is no letting go, as your cuts aren't that long, once you have hit the top speed it's already time to stop it again. But that's only possible with the katana because it's much lighter than a two handed sword (mine is a bit over 1kg, and it is a really heavy one).
Arm strength is hardly involved, but wrist movement is.

I hope that was somehow understandable.

Cael K.:
Alright, yeah. Honestly, I think nunchaku uses roughly the same mechanics - or maybe even emphasizes part of what you're talking about. I understand it's a one-hander, but I remember being told that the mechanics were similar to stick and sword (and that's why it was taught first) - you have to fling them with your wrist as you strike down, otherwise there's really no impact and the thing goes wild. Moreover, the wrist snap only happens when you need to make the impact, 'cause you need to make the attacking part snap down where you intend to strike - kinda sounds like what's going on here. I never really thought about this until now, though... it's probably a very universal motion (the horizontal strikes are likely a bit different than sword, though).

So, two other questions if you're not tired of them already. ^^ First, when using the right hand to stop the sword... how is that done? I mean, I tried it a while ago, and the sword tends to wiggle a bit when I try and stop it (or rather, specifically because I try and stop it). I think I tried gripping it tight to stop it, then I just tried stopping my right hand from moving, but I guess it doesn't like stopping without a bit of swaying to the sides.

Second, I'm thinking that the cutting motion you're describing involves a forward cut (as opposed to a strike, and a pull back)? Does that sound right?

All in all though, thanks for the replies. They've been enlightening.

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