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Author Topic: THE iDOLM@STER 2 Gameplay Thread  (Read 153520 times)

Cael K.

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Re: THE iDOLM@STER 2 Gameplay Thread
« Reply #240 on: April 13, 2011, 03:30:08 am »
... danketsu doesn't get offsetted by the low bpm bonus multiplier, you'll basically be spending 1.5 times more time to get the same amount of score as a faster bpm song.

Oh what the, really?!? That's so incredibly broken... makes sense (i.e. it could've been inferred earlier), when I think about it, but dang.

Memory Appeals do give you 3 combo and score in each of the three appeals, but I've found the auto-points it gives actually... (so far) less than any of my stats at around x1.0. I don't know what it's based off of either. Of course, the palsty 3 combo it gives you for the 6 appeals they eat up mean only one thing to me: it's only worth it if you can squeeze an extra burst out of it. It gives you mad voltage, but the score ain't so hot, and it resets your multipliers. In fact, Voltage UP anything is only worth it if you can get an extra Burst from it.

Personally, I don't know how I feel about Danketsu totally overrunning every single stat in Burst, as it leads to abuses where you can totally ignore a stat. Off hand, maybe Danketsu as a multiplier to your stats would've been better.

Oh, yeah. Keeps are not marked as far as I remember. You'll have to remember the numbers.

EDIT: Just tested. i is 122 beats. In Dancing with the reporter (and mail boost, if it matters) 31 combo to full, plus one to fire the Burst, 10 for the Burst itself, and 4 for the pose, for a grand total of 46 beats for a full meter -> immediate Burst loop. 122 - (46 * 2) = 30. I refrained from Memory Appealing and yes, I was two beats off another Burst (one to fill, one to fire).

For completeness, Normal mood, with Reporter, no Mail Boost gives me 31 to a full meter as well.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 04:45:52 am by Cael K. »
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BT2

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Re: THE iDOLM@STER 2 Gameplay Thread
« Reply #241 on: April 13, 2011, 04:41:53 am »
Yea, I forgot a mem appeal initially's a better tri-appeal so it gives a 3 combo.

Here's some new nonsense I thought up when watching animu and semi-playing the game at the same time. Again, below isn't accurate but is meant to inform people on why it's not smart to burst during a song in the early weeks of the game.

Bursting, is it worth it?
A burst is only worth it if you can offset the difference to regain the 1.5 modifier with the gained extra points.

Assuming one bursts with a specialised 6/2/2 character with a 3.0/ 2.7/ 1.8 modifier and has 250/90/90 scoring potential for regular appeals; image 13 fully maxed main, others untouched.

Assuming one uses a faster song with maxed main at 1.5 modifier and untouched secondary stat, one will get 375 points per main and approx 90 secondary.


What we know is that burst only checks for raw danketsu points and that it takes 10 appeals.
Assuming the current danketsu is 200, we'll be getting 6*600+ 2*600+ 2*360 points= 5430 points

If we look back at the previous stats we'll see that we can get approx 1.46*10*250points=3650 points
Why 1.46? Most stages have a decay of 0.04 per 5 appeals or 0.008 per single one and 1.46 is the average of 10 appeals.

5430-3650=1780 points difference.


Now in order to get back to 1.5 you'd need 11 secondary appeals and a memory appeal or 17 secondary appeals.
This means that you'd need 17 appeals too get back that 1.5 multiplier.
Let's assume we used 17 secondaries  for ease, we'll see that we get approx 1500 points for these.
If we look back at the score we gained, 1780 and add the 1500, and divide it by the amount of appeals we need to get 1.5 back we'll get 3280/17 approx 193 points.
This means we've been gaining a mere 193 points after our burst for 17 appeals after we broke even.

Assuming we're doing regular appeals and we start from the 1.42 we had left from before and we'd been doing regular main appeals we would've gotten 17*(1.42-0.068)*250=338 points

This means that even though we gained a good amount of points from a burst, we lost a lot of them in order to stabilise our strength afterwards.

Of course, having the multiplier below 1.50  doesn't make sense unless you can't break even from the secondary used, usually occuring in the last 30 or so appeals.


Again, if the difference between main and secondary's lower, regaining the 1.5 will be less taxing.


Or the simplified inaccurate version for dummies:
Don't burst if 27*1.30*main> 27.5*danketsu+17*secondary


If we look at this simplified formula and the other values we had, we'd learn that we'd be better of using regular appeals unless we had 265 danketsu.
27*1.3*250=8775
27.5*265+ 17*90=8816

65 danketsu difference is quite a lot and takes approx 2 months to gain.
If we assume one makes 9 danketsu points a week on average, it means we'd better not burst during a song before week 27 or so with our dumb level 13 unit.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 05:27:15 am by :| »

Cael K.

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Re: THE iDOLM@STER 2 Gameplay Thread
« Reply #242 on: April 13, 2011, 07:34:21 am »
Speaking of which, there've been some numbers on score/voltage bonuses up on the Japanese wiki, but some of those numbers I can't corroborate, strangely enough.

EDIT 2: Page in question is here.
http://www44.atwiki.jp/idolmasterim2/pages/15.html

Regular Appeal Voltage UP, in particular, I can't verify - I'm getting different numbers, but it's possible they're doing it in a different mood than me (probably Kashimashi). Even still, I don't think... it'd be that different. My numbers for Mid and Large are x1.3 and x1.5 respectively. Visual Appeal Voltage UP is also around x1.25, but I'm thinking All Regular Appeals Voltage UP (small) will be less than this.

Reporter Boost seems to be x1.4. If you've got multiple bonuses, they seem to stack multiplicatively (Reporter and Regular Appeal Voltage UP (medium) looks like 1 x1.3 x1.4 ~ 1.82, rather than 1 + .3 + .4 = 1.7).

For what it's worth, Memory Appeal Voltage UP seems to be x1.05 for Mid and x1.375 for Super (approximately). Numbers... look strange, honestly, but it's what I got, though the only thing I have to go on right now are regular Lv. 1 Appeals. The only amulet with a Large bonus to this is... the Danchou. Laugh with me here.

EDIT: Can I request a link to the Japanese wiki on the OP?
http://www44.atwiki.jp/idolmasterim2/
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 08:27:41 am by Cael K. »
Cael's Im@s Ranking: Azusa, Yumeko, Tomomi, Haruka

How to get stuff from Japan without causing things to explode in a shower of sparks and misery: http://forum.project-imas.com/index.php/topic,1108.0.html

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kasmichan

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Re: THE iDOLM@STER 2 Gameplay Thread
« Reply #243 on: April 13, 2011, 09:00:01 am »
For both stage and lessons, left is strongest and most tiring, right is weakest and less straining whereas the upper choice is somewhere between the two.

Stop abusing auto-commands, especially the go all out one.
Having an interval between usages will give your idols some time to recover but if it gets serious, look at the danketsu circle, give them a week off. It's a lot better than them taking one themself.
It seems to recover more, also you get 1 point of danketsu for the  day off command and 4/2 danketsu in the morning.
the event only once.


I'm not abusing the auto..what I mean is..after I got top 1 on dotop having 277 total sales..my unit somewhat became lazy and tends to day-off often..seems like they're confident enough that their rank won't be defeated..that made my battle with jupiter really hard since I'm having a hard time due to my vocal stat being so low..

another thing..I'm currently at lvl 7 producer rank and I kinda noticed that getting rank 20 in my second song became really hard unlike on my 1st,2nd and 3rd playthroughs..at week 15 the rank 1 song is already at 151 sales...seems like reaching a higher producer rank makes it more difficult..I'm still using the same tactic on this 4th playthrough but it's not working anymore..the worst thing also comes when I often encounter the reporter that gives bonus to lessons so I often lost the rporter tht gives 40% fans..

BT2

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Re: THE iDOLM@STER 2 Gameplay Thread
« Reply #244 on: April 13, 2011, 10:41:23 am »
I'm not abusing the auto..what I mean is..after I got top 1 on dotop having 277 total sales..my unit somewhat became lazy and tends to day-off often..seems like they're confident enough that their rank won't be defeated..that made my battle with jupiter really hard since I'm having a hard time due to my vocal stat being so low..
The game decides your unit gets tired from working too hard from time to time and as far as I know it they only take a week off themself if you've been using an autocommand regularly, again it might've just been accumulated stress you've been building up over a period of time so it might just look random to you if you haven't been using such a command for a few weeks or so but it might not be so random.

another thing..I'm currently at lvl 7 producer rank and I kinda noticed that getting rank 20 in my second song became really hard unlike on my 1st,2nd and 3rd playthroughs..at week 15 the rank 1 song is already at 151 sales...seems like reaching a higher producer rank makes it more difficult..I'm still using the same tactic on this 4th playthrough but it's not working anymore..
As far as I know it the game should be pretty much the same on all levels but tbh if you're on your 4th playthrough why aren't you in the top 20 with your first song yet? With items and knowledge on the game gained, your mastery on the gameplay should still be in an upwards curve, until you get tired of it and decide to cut corners.
Also, I don't have the actual values on hand, nor do I know them by heart, but even though Maou Angel have an absurd 1.5kk sales, I don't recall them having that actual value untill around the release of 3rd song, they should have 580k or so during 2nd, also if I recall correctly number 2's only at 430k or so and a spot in the top 20's like what 320k or so at that point of the game and should also be easy enough to get, even when only doing trainings.
Again, these numbers are inaccurate because I don't have any reference data on me.

anotherthe worst thing also comes when I often encounter the reporter that gives bonus to lessons so I often lost the rporter tht gives 40% fans..
Don't enter an area with Koshiba? If you don't want a different reporter, don't enter their area or if you really want to be in an area, do a paid promotion. Reporters only stick around jobs with stage performances. Still, temporarily doing a job in a different region's the more obvious choice; you'd need the fans later on anyway and assuming the amount you have in that area is low'ish I'd ignore it for a couple of weeks or in case you have a decent amount of fans there do a regular audition to raise awareness or you could go for a national one to bump every area up slightly; it's not like the game forces you to overwrite your reporter boosts because you still have alternatives.

TweenDoriru

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Re: THE iDOLM@STER 2 Gameplay Thread
« Reply #245 on: April 13, 2011, 12:25:11 pm »
Eh, what reporters are in what areas, anyway?

Maybe I should know from playing through the game but I never actually paid it that much attention ^^; I just do work where it needs to be done and everything else is a side effect...

kasmichan

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Re: THE iDOLM@STER 2 Gameplay Thread
« Reply #246 on: April 13, 2011, 03:53:11 pm »
Also, I don't have the actual values on hand, nor do I know them by heart, but even though Maou Angel have an absurd 1.5kk sales, I don't recall them having that actual value untill around the release of 3rd song, they should have 580k or so during 2nd, also if I recall correctly number 2's only at 430k or so and a spot in the top 20's like what 320k or so at that point of the game and should also be easy enough to get, even when only doing trainings.
that's where I'm wondering..I should've reached top 20 by week 17 since I'm doing publicities and fes but I don't know why it's like that..I have pics of my current playthrough at week 22..I'll show you what I have on it..sorry for the blurry image..I don't have my cam with me..oh and sorry I misslead that..it's not 155 by week 15..it's 141..in my 2nd and 3rd gameplay, I'm only on pubs while this 4th I started hitting fes for some money..on my 1st playthrough well it's a total dissaster so I don't wanna remember it..

week 22..

this is my current stats on the areas

here's the ranking after the week:that's my 3rd song release Shiny Smile

Current Top 1..this is where I was surprised..144 at week 22.top 20 is 50+..I was wondering why my sales are too low eventhough I'm only doing fes and pub until my battle at week 20 or 21 if I recall..



Don't enter an area with Koshiba? If you don't want a different reporter, don't enter their area or if you really want to be in an area, do a paid promotion. Reporters only stick around jobs with stage performances. Still, temporarily doing a job in a different region's the more obvious choice; you'd need the fans later on anyway and assuming the amount you have in that area is low'ish I'd ignore it for a couple of weeks or in case you have a decent amount of fans there do a regular audition to raise awareness or you could go for a national one to bump every area up slightly; it's not like the game forces you to overwrite your reporter boosts because you still have alternatives.

aren't they random?? I was thinking he's really following me everywhere I go..hehehehe

BT2

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Re: THE iDOLM@STER 2 Gameplay Thread
« Reply #247 on: April 13, 2011, 04:13:34 pm »
Eh, what reporters are in what areas, anyway?
aren't they random?? I was thinking he's really following me everywhere I go..hehehehe

Sigh, people should really pay attention to the interface when they schedule.
It's Q&A time

Look at the lower left part of the screen during scheduling, what do you see there?
_*Ah, it's a pen icon thingy, what's that for anyways?
Good question, next to the little pen icon in the box next to it it'll show the name of the reporter who's currently in the region.
_*Does that mean I can always spam Ariake if I stalk him?

No, you can not, a reporter only stays with your unit for 4 weeks and their boost starts the moment you encounter them including the initial week, in case of Koshiba the lesson reporter you can only use his boost for 3 weeks because lesson boost is useless during a stage, Antaku with his voltage boost is also useless on the initial week, so his effect'll only be useful for 3 weeks as well.
Also, after a reporter leaves you, it takes at least 3 weeks for him to reappear on the map again.
In case you need fans or money, Yamahara is a decent substitute because he gives a 1.2 multiplier on acquired money and fans and also raises voltage gain speed.

Also, like I mentioned in an earlier post, whereas you can manipulate the available jobs in an area by reloading and selecting a different morning greeting, reporter locations are saved.

If you always get the exact same reporters in exactly the same weeks, you'll always get the same reporters in every playthrough because there seems to be a connection between obtaining and leaving reporters.
The regions the reporters are in however seem to be random per playthrough.

Also, because a reporter is in an area doesn't mean they will attach themselves to you.

that's where I'm wondering..I should've reached top 20 by week 17 since I'm doing publicities and fes but I don't know why it's like that..I have pics of my current playthrough at week 22

What's the 2 most important elements for sales, excluding special states again?
Fans and highscore.

Assuming one uses a dual route build one should easily be able to reach top 20 before w9.
A highscore of 32k+ should easilly be doable and with the 2 paid promotions done earlier getting in should be a piece of cake.I should say that doing jobs before reaching top 20 is a waste of time and shouldn't be done.
You're way better of spending all your time training, training and more training.
Assuming you did the paid promos and failed ranking in the top 20 and are stuck in 50'ish , doing a stage and get Koshiba in w7, losing to RK in w10 and reobtaining Koshiba in w13 and train all the time. You should have plenty of fans left, even if you let them deteriorate, and have a good amount of stats to get a decent score.

Also, take a look at my article on bursting in the early months of the game if you're having trouble getting a decent highscore early on.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 04:20:31 pm by :| »

kasmichan

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Re: THE iDOLM@STER 2 Gameplay Thread
« Reply #248 on: April 13, 2011, 04:36:09 pm »
well..I don't pay attention to that side of the schedule screen..hahaha all I do is keep what I'm used to like in Idolmaster 1 and SP..hahaha time to change..XD

Thanks a lot^^ I'll try to re-explore this game as I progress..time to hit another way/s..tried the national auditions and it jumped my sales from 21-58..just what I need..now i can finally grind some money for the items..^^

Oh yeah..read your article about the HS..Love to try it on my next playthrough^^ for now I'll use what I'm used to^^..my own play style..hehehe

Cael K.

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Re: THE iDOLM@STER 2 Gameplay Thread
« Reply #249 on: April 18, 2011, 05:09:53 am »
Some more apparent numbers.

All Regular Appeals Voltage UP (small): x1.15.
All Regular Appeals Voltage UP (super): x3.25.
Specific Appeal Voltage UP (medium): x1.35.

Specific Appeal Score UP (small): x1.1.

Values are approximate.

Also, amulets.
Fukunoshin (Voltage Shield): Your enemy can't reduce your Voltage (even with Bursts?). At best, it hiccups for a beat when they appeal. For those of you confident in your high scoring abilities.
Komekama-kun (Voltage Cutter, Explosion): Burst and your rival's Voltage drops to zero. Might be good for Burst lockout, but probably hard.

EDIT: Might be wrong about Fukunoshin. At least he might reduce the Voltage reduced?
« Last Edit: April 18, 2011, 05:43:04 am by Cael K. »
Cael's Im@s Ranking: Azusa, Yumeko, Tomomi, Haruka

How to get stuff from Japan without causing things to explode in a shower of sparks and misery: http://forum.project-imas.com/index.php/topic,1108.0.html

Memories of Melon Pan: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/caelk/
Translations: http://www.mediafire.com/?hzc4b0jy7pwll

Currently translating (text only):
S(mile)ING! (English version, singable) - http://d.hatena.ne.jp/caelk/20140911/1410422445
Neue Green, Volume 3 - Will start sometime. ^_^;;
Rockin' Girl, Volume 1 (Chapters 1-5) - http://www.mediafire.com/?z00ffkvg5ocg11e

kasmichan

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Re: THE iDOLM@STER 2 Gameplay Thread
« Reply #250 on: April 18, 2011, 01:53:28 pm »
Some more apparent numbers.

All Regular Appeals Voltage UP (small): x1.15.
All Regular Appeals Voltage UP (super): x3.25.
Specific Appeal Voltage UP (medium): x1.35.

Specific Appeal Score UP (small): x1.1.

Values are approximate.

Also, amulets.
Fukunoshin (Voltage Shield): Your enemy can't reduce your Voltage (even with Bursts?). At best, it hiccups for a beat when they appeal. For those of you confident in your high scoring abilities.
Komekama-kun (Voltage Cutter, Explosion): Burst and your rival's Voltage drops to zero. Might be good for Burst lockout, but probably hard.

EDIT: Might be wrong about Fukunoshin. At least he might reduce the Voltage reduced?

what's he look like? I know I got an amulet that will not drain your entire voltage whn the enemy burst appealed..in other words, "burst appeal score higher while enemy BA voltage damage reduced" I think..I used it during my second playthrough and using that amulet it will remain 1/4 or less of your total voltage when the enemy bursts before you though I don't know if there's an amulet that can shield the voltage bar completely..

BTW I've noticed certain events that didn't happened while I'm using that character as leader..when I used Yayoi as leader and Miki as member, there was a scene where I met both miki and azusa in a mall..I wonder why didn't it happen when I'm using Miki as leader..same for Hibiki, there was a night when she gave me a quiz which will test if I know certain Okinawan words that didn't happen when she was member...are there any explanation for that? I'm getting a headache reconstructing and remembering Miki's story just to put that scene on the line....

And one more thing..I keep spotting Yukata/Kinomo outfits in some promotion/publicity..is that the last extend outfit? I'm missing one more extend outfit(lowest right)..I love the Aloha one though...hehehehe

BT2

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Re: THE iDOLM@STER 2 Gameplay Thread
« Reply #251 on: April 18, 2011, 03:42:39 pm »
what's he look like? I know I got an amulet that will not drain your entire voltage whn the enemy burst appealed..in other words, "burst appeal score higher while enemy BA voltage damage reduced" I think..I used it during my second playthrough and using that amulet it will remain 1/4 or less of your total voltage when the enemy bursts before you though I don't know if there's an amulet that can shield the voltage bar completely..
Imo, shielding and bomb modifieing charms are a waste of time, seeing as how you waste a valuable slot you could've used on something else;
While it's true they might or might not be useful the game's rather dumbly put together in a way that FES's are either too easy or too hard.
For easier ones you wouldn't need those charms and for those harder ones they'd be nearly useless because your opponent will just trample you with sheer strength.
Shielding is more pointless than burst effect modifiers simply because you're technically waiting passively for an opponent to attack while you should be the one doing the attacking.
That aside, getting a highscore and FES'es are an oxymoron neways.
Also, before w35-40'ish bursting during a song is moot anyways, scorewise, so shielding voltage'd be pointless as well.

BTW I've noticed certain events that didn't happened while I'm using that character as leader..when I used Yayoi as leader and Miki as member, there was a scene where I met both miki and azusa in a mall..I wonder why didn't it happen when I'm using Miki as leader..same for Hibiki, there was a night when she gave me a quiz which will test if I know certain Okinawan words that didn't happen when she was member...are there any explanation for that? I'm getting a headache reconstructing and remembering Miki's story just to put that scene on the line....
It's based on the mood of a single idol; if you get enough + modifiers you'll have a chance to see a skit. However, you won't get to see any of those after-commus after w18; the last chance you get to switch leaders.

And one more thing..I keep spotting Yukata/Kinomo outfits in some promotion/publicity..is that the last extend outfit? I'm missing one more extend outfit(lowest right)..I love the Aloha one though...hehehehe
No, it's the DLC schooluniform that was free till the beginning of april.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2011, 03:46:10 pm by (╯‵Д′)╯彡┻━┻ »

kasmichan

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Re: THE iDOLM@STER 2 Gameplay Thread
« Reply #252 on: April 18, 2011, 05:10:30 pm »
Imo, shielding and bomb modifieing charms are a waste of time, seeing as how you waste a valuable slot you could've used on something else;
While it's true they might or might not be useful the game's rather dumbly put together in a way that FES's are either too easy or too hard.
For easier ones you wouldn't need those charms and for those harder ones they'd be nearly useless because your opponent will just trample you with sheer strength.
Shielding is more pointless than burst effect modifiers simply because you're technically waiting passively for an opponent to attack while you should be the one doing the attacking.
That aside, getting a highscore and FES'es are an oxymoron neways.
Also, before w35-40'ish bursting during a song is moot anyways, scorewise, so shielding voltage'd be pointless as well.


shield amulet saved my butt many times on fes's specially those lvl 8 special fes and vs jupiter where the enemy can burst really quick..it's a good amulet if you don't have sufficient level since you won't be able to increase your voltage that quick...tactic wise amulets are good to get some advantage if you have a low stat..otherwise it's really useless if you have a very high lvl stat already and can burst in about 30-40secs or halfway of the song..I'm currently exploring the amulets and so far I don't see the effect of that amulet that costs 50000+

Tatsumiya

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Re: THE iDOLM@STER 2 Gameplay Thread
« Reply #253 on: April 18, 2011, 06:44:24 pm »
Im on week 50 and this is my first play of IM@S2 , I got 2 appeals and ranked 2 in cd sales , i just need around 3000 more to be no.1 but my cd sales come to a halt.

I already tried to do a live and national audition but there's no effect. Should I do a fes, but the rivals are all top stars who have lots of appeals.

What should I do to increase my sales?

BT2

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Re: THE iDOLM@STER 2 Gameplay Thread
« Reply #254 on: April 18, 2011, 08:30:52 pm »
I already tried to do a live and national audition but there's no effect. Should I do a fes, but the rivals are all top stars who have lots of appeals.
Interestingly, you're doing jobs that are pointless at that stage of the game; lives only give you keeps and it's unknown whether national auditions trigger revivals at all.
Your best bet at week 50 is by trying to get a break with your last song, assuming you haven't been switching your songs around all the time, and try for a break.
If you haven't been switching around all the time you should've accumulated a good amount of lucky stars already and your final chance to get a break would be in week 54.

An alternative would be to go with a revive, select your 4th or so song and keep doing regular region auditions. 4th because it'd be your 2nd highest sales and because you should be using this song 2nd most often.


For reference:
Do a Fes to get a Break, obtainable at earliest on 6th week of sales, or 10 weeks since selecting the song. Only works on latest song, this allows your latest song to sell for 4 weeks again.
Do a Live to get a Keep, works only on your latest song and only keeps your sales coefficient from dropping too much, useless after a few weeks.
Do an Audition to get a Revival, only possible if the song you're producing isn't your latest. Basically a break for anything other than your latest song.
Do S. Lives to get a Super Break: Only obtainable by doing special lives and before the sales actually starts; the 4 weeks gap between selecting and selling. Greatly increases sales coefficient for the initial 4 weeks.

It should be noted that special lives aren't the same as regular ones and won't trigger keeps.
It's unknown whether national auditions trigger revives.