THE iDOLM@STER > THE iDOLM@STER 2
THE iDOLM@STER 2 Gameplay Thread
Cael K.:
--- Quote from: :| on April 12, 2011, 09:56:32 pm ---... danketsu doesn't get offsetted by the low bpm bonus multiplier, you'll basically be spending 1.5 times more time to get the same amount of score as a faster bpm song.
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Oh what the, really?!? That's so incredibly broken... makes sense (i.e. it could've been inferred earlier), when I think about it, but dang.
Memory Appeals do give you 3 combo and score in each of the three appeals, but I've found the auto-points it gives actually... (so far) less than any of my stats at around x1.0. I don't know what it's based off of either. Of course, the palsty 3 combo it gives you for the 6 appeals they eat up mean only one thing to me: it's only worth it if you can squeeze an extra burst out of it. It gives you mad voltage, but the score ain't so hot, and it resets your multipliers. In fact, Voltage UP anything is only worth it if you can get an extra Burst from it.
Personally, I don't know how I feel about Danketsu totally overrunning every single stat in Burst, as it leads to abuses where you can totally ignore a stat. Off hand, maybe Danketsu as a multiplier to your stats would've been better.
Oh, yeah. Keeps are not marked as far as I remember. You'll have to remember the numbers.
EDIT: Just tested. i is 122 beats. In Dancing with the reporter (and mail boost, if it matters) 31 combo to full, plus one to fire the Burst, 10 for the Burst itself, and 4 for the pose, for a grand total of 46 beats for a full meter -> immediate Burst loop. 122 - (46 * 2) = 30. I refrained from Memory Appealing and yes, I was two beats off another Burst (one to fill, one to fire).
For completeness, Normal mood, with Reporter, no Mail Boost gives me 31 to a full meter as well.
BT2:
Yea, I forgot a mem appeal initially's a better tri-appeal so it gives a 3 combo.
Here's some new nonsense I thought up when watching animu and semi-playing the game at the same time. Again, below isn't accurate but is meant to inform people on why it's not smart to burst during a song in the early weeks of the game.
Bursting, is it worth it?
A burst is only worth it if you can offset the difference to regain the 1.5 modifier with the gained extra points.
Assuming one bursts with a specialised 6/2/2 character with a 3.0/ 2.7/ 1.8 modifier and has 250/90/90 scoring potential for regular appeals; image 13 fully maxed main, others untouched.
Assuming one uses a faster song with maxed main at 1.5 modifier and untouched secondary stat, one will get 375 points per main and approx 90 secondary.
What we know is that burst only checks for raw danketsu points and that it takes 10 appeals.
Assuming the current danketsu is 200, we'll be getting 6*600+ 2*600+ 2*360 points= 5430 points
If we look back at the previous stats we'll see that we can get approx 1.46*10*250points=3650 points
Why 1.46? Most stages have a decay of 0.04 per 5 appeals or 0.008 per single one and 1.46 is the average of 10 appeals.
5430-3650=1780 points difference.
Now in order to get back to 1.5 you'd need 11 secondary appeals and a memory appeal or 17 secondary appeals.
This means that you'd need 17 appeals too get back that 1.5 multiplier.
Let's assume we used 17 secondaries for ease, we'll see that we get approx 1500 points for these.
If we look back at the score we gained, 1780 and add the 1500, and divide it by the amount of appeals we need to get 1.5 back we'll get 3280/17 approx 193 points.
This means we've been gaining a mere 193 points after our burst for 17 appeals after we broke even.
Assuming we're doing regular appeals and we start from the 1.42 we had left from before and we'd been doing regular main appeals we would've gotten 17*(1.42-0.068)*250=338 points
This means that even though we gained a good amount of points from a burst, we lost a lot of them in order to stabilise our strength afterwards.
Of course, having the multiplier below 1.50 doesn't make sense unless you can't break even from the secondary used, usually occuring in the last 30 or so appeals.
Again, if the difference between main and secondary's lower, regaining the 1.5 will be less taxing.
Or the simplified inaccurate version for dummies:
Don't burst if 27*1.30*main> 27.5*danketsu+17*secondary
If we look at this simplified formula and the other values we had, we'd learn that we'd be better of using regular appeals unless we had 265 danketsu.
27*1.3*250=8775
27.5*265+ 17*90=8816
65 danketsu difference is quite a lot and takes approx 2 months to gain.
If we assume one makes 9 danketsu points a week on average, it means we'd better not burst during a song before week 27 or so with our dumb level 13 unit.
Cael K.:
Speaking of which, there've been some numbers on score/voltage bonuses up on the Japanese wiki, but some of those numbers I can't corroborate, strangely enough.
EDIT 2: Page in question is here.
http://www44.atwiki.jp/idolmasterim2/pages/15.html
Regular Appeal Voltage UP, in particular, I can't verify - I'm getting different numbers, but it's possible they're doing it in a different mood than me (probably Kashimashi). Even still, I don't think... it'd be that different. My numbers for Mid and Large are x1.3 and x1.5 respectively. Visual Appeal Voltage UP is also around x1.25, but I'm thinking All Regular Appeals Voltage UP (small) will be less than this.
Reporter Boost seems to be x1.4. If you've got multiple bonuses, they seem to stack multiplicatively (Reporter and Regular Appeal Voltage UP (medium) looks like 1 x1.3 x1.4 ~ 1.82, rather than 1 + .3 + .4 = 1.7).
For what it's worth, Memory Appeal Voltage UP seems to be x1.05 for Mid and x1.375 for Super (approximately). Numbers... look strange, honestly, but it's what I got, though the only thing I have to go on right now are regular Lv. 1 Appeals. The only amulet with a Large bonus to this is... the Danchou. Laugh with me here.
EDIT: Can I request a link to the Japanese wiki on the OP?
http://www44.atwiki.jp/idolmasterim2/
kasmichan:
--- Quote from: :| on April 11, 2011, 06:46:51 am ---For both stage and lessons, left is strongest and most tiring, right is weakest and less straining whereas the upper choice is somewhere between the two.
Stop abusing auto-commands, especially the go all out one.
Having an interval between usages will give your idols some time to recover but if it gets serious, look at the danketsu circle, give them a week off. It's a lot better than them taking one themself.
It seems to recover more, also you get 1 point of danketsu for the day off command and 4/2 danketsu in the morning.
the event only once.
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I'm not abusing the auto..what I mean is..after I got top 1 on dotop having 277 total sales..my unit somewhat became lazy and tends to day-off often..seems like they're confident enough that their rank won't be defeated..that made my battle with jupiter really hard since I'm having a hard time due to my vocal stat being so low..
another thing..I'm currently at lvl 7 producer rank and I kinda noticed that getting rank 20 in my second song became really hard unlike on my 1st,2nd and 3rd playthroughs..at week 15 the rank 1 song is already at 151 sales...seems like reaching a higher producer rank makes it more difficult..I'm still using the same tactic on this 4th playthrough but it's not working anymore..the worst thing also comes when I often encounter the reporter that gives bonus to lessons so I often lost the rporter tht gives 40% fans..
BT2:
--- Quote from: kasmichan on April 13, 2011, 09:00:01 am ---I'm not abusing the auto..what I mean is..after I got top 1 on dotop having 277 total sales..my unit somewhat became lazy and tends to day-off often..seems like they're confident enough that their rank won't be defeated..that made my battle with jupiter really hard since I'm having a hard time due to my vocal stat being so low..
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The game decides your unit gets tired from working too hard from time to time and as far as I know it they only take a week off themself if you've been using an autocommand regularly, again it might've just been accumulated stress you've been building up over a period of time so it might just look random to you if you haven't been using such a command for a few weeks or so but it might not be so random.
--- Quote from: kasmichan on April 13, 2011, 09:00:01 am ---another thing..I'm currently at lvl 7 producer rank and I kinda noticed that getting rank 20 in my second song became really hard unlike on my 1st,2nd and 3rd playthroughs..at week 15 the rank 1 song is already at 151 sales...seems like reaching a higher producer rank makes it more difficult..I'm still using the same tactic on this 4th playthrough but it's not working anymore..
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As far as I know it the game should be pretty much the same on all levels but tbh if you're on your 4th playthrough why aren't you in the top 20 with your first song yet? With items and knowledge on the game gained, your mastery on the gameplay should still be in an upwards curve, until you get tired of it and decide to cut corners.
Also, I don't have the actual values on hand, nor do I know them by heart, but even though Maou Angel have an absurd 1.5kk sales, I don't recall them having that actual value untill around the release of 3rd song, they should have 580k or so during 2nd, also if I recall correctly number 2's only at 430k or so and a spot in the top 20's like what 320k or so at that point of the game and should also be easy enough to get, even when only doing trainings.
Again, these numbers are inaccurate because I don't have any reference data on me.
--- Quote from: kasmichan on April 13, 2011, 09:00:01 am ---anotherthe worst thing also comes when I often encounter the reporter that gives bonus to lessons so I often lost the rporter tht gives 40% fans..
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Don't enter an area with Koshiba? If you don't want a different reporter, don't enter their area or if you really want to be in an area, do a paid promotion. Reporters only stick around jobs with stage performances. Still, temporarily doing a job in a different region's the more obvious choice; you'd need the fans later on anyway and assuming the amount you have in that area is low'ish I'd ignore it for a couple of weeks or in case you have a decent amount of fans there do a regular audition to raise awareness or you could go for a national one to bump every area up slightly; it's not like the game forces you to overwrite your reporter boosts because you still have alternatives.
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