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Author Topic: Need some advice  (Read 1923 times)

JurikoSan

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Re: Need some advice
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2017, 10:15:45 PM »
I see. I checket out the thread, and tried messing around with it, But cant Seem to score any higher though
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Naryoril

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Re: Need some advice
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2017, 08:27:31 PM »
To be precise the target support z turns all bad and normal into good. Since pressing the wrong button is a normal, even that is allowed without breaking the combo. And due to the way long notes work,  you don't need to hold these either. If you have trouble with full combos on master,  use target support Z,  iirc they cost 1000 each

What exact setup are you using?

JurikoSan

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Re: Need some advice
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2017, 08:31:39 PM »
I can take a picture for you for my setup, I think that's easier ^^

I tried the target support z but can only normal clear with longer way to ex clear on master, maybe I just need practice with it on master Idk.
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JurikoSan

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Re: Need some advice
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2017, 08:48:38 PM »
Here is my setup for Keep-Out 3
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mariokirby

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Re: Need some advice
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2017, 12:14:09 AM »
To be precise the target support z turns all bad and normal into good.

Oh, okay.  That makes sense.  Thank you for the clarification.  (Somehow it “feels” like I get more perfects.  But, I guess maybe with practice you tend to score more perfects regardless).

Don’t mean to sabotage the topic, but just out of curiosity what do the other items do?  I guess they aren’t too useful but just wondering.

And due to the way long notes work,  you don't need to hold these either.

Sorry, but what did you mean by that?  I thought you need to hold down the button for those long notes until it finishes.

Naryoril

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Re: Need some advice
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2017, 09:56:55 AM »
Oh, okay.  That makes sense.  Thank you for the clarification.  (Somehow it “feels” like I get more perfects.  But, I guess maybe with practice you tend to score more perfects regardless).

Don’t mean to sabotage the topic, but just out of curiosity what do the other items do?  I guess they aren’t too useful but just wondering.

I'm not at home right now, so i can't check, but a lot of them are basically already included in target support Z. I know one of them makes it, that normals don't end the extreme burst, but since target support z turns normals into goods, the effect is the same (and it even works for bads).

One item does something with double notes if i'm not mistaking.

And iirc another item does something with the long notes, but that is included in target support z as well (see below)

Sorry, but what did you mean by that?  I thought you need to hold down the button for those long notes until it finishes.

I mean, when you use target support z, you don't need to hold them. The work like this:

If you hold the button until the note is over (no need to let go of the button at the right timing, you just need to press it until the note is over), you get the same "rating" (as in bad, normal, good or perfect) as you got at the beginning of the note. So if you got a normal at the start, you won't get a good or perfect at the end, only a normal.

If you let go of the button too soon, you get a worse rating, depending on how much too soon you let go of it. But you will always get at least a bad, you won't get a miss.

Since you get at least a bad when letting go of the button too soon, and target support z turns a bad into a good, there is no need to hold a long note with target support z. Well, it's not necessary if the combo is all you are concerned about, for a high score you want at many perfects as you can of course, and for that you need to keep the button pressed (and get a perfect at the beginning of the note).

mariokirby

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Re: Need some advice
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2017, 03:11:19 PM »
but a lot of them are basically already included in target support Z. I know one of them makes it, that normals don't end the extreme burst, but since target support z turns normals into goods, the effect is the same (and it even works for bads).

One item does something with double notes if i'm not mistaking.

And iirc another item does something with the long notes, but that is included in target support z as well (see below)

I see.  Thank you for answering my question.  Didn't know target support Z had included additional effects from other items as well.

If you hold the button until the note is over (no need to let go of the button at the right timing, you just need to press it until the note is over), you get the same "rating" (as in bad, normal, good or perfect) as you got at the beginning of the note. So if you got a normal at the start, you won't get a good or perfect at the end, only a normal.

If you let go of the button too soon, you get a worse rating, depending on how much too soon you let go of it. But you will always get at least a bad, you won't get a miss.

I see.  I like the way the game makes it, so you don't have to let go of the button at the right moment.  I just hold it down until the note finishes. 


Since you get at least a bad when letting go of the button too soon, and target support z turns a bad into a good, there is no need to hold a long note with target support z. Well, it's not necessary if the combo is all you are concerned about, for a high score you want at many perfects as you can of course, and for that you need to keep the button pressed (and get a perfect at the beginning of the note).

I guess all the benefits from target support Z is dependent on pressing the right button.  So, pressing the wrong button is excluded from this if I understood this correctly.

I do notice that even if I full combo a Master song, if I score mostly good notes, then the score gap from that and getting all perfect notes from a Pro song isn't that much.  So, I try to get as many perfects if I'm forced to use a Master song for a really difficult DL live.


Naryoril

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Re: Need some advice
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2017, 03:58:08 PM »
I see.  Thank you for answering my question.  Didn't know target support Z had included additional effects from other items as well.

It's not explicitely included, it's just that the effect of target support Z also results in achieving the same as other items (such as not ending the burst on a normal, since target support z turns that normal or even bad into a good, which doesn't end the burst either).

I see.  I like the way the game makes it, so you don't have to let go of the button at the right moment.  I just hold it down until the note finishes. 

I guess all the benefits from target support Z is dependent on pressing the right button.  So, pressing the wrong button is excluded from this if I understood this correctly.

I do notice that even if I full combo a Master song, if I score mostly good notes, then the score gap from that and getting all perfect notes from a Pro song isn't that much.  So, I try to get as many perfects if I'm forced to use a Master song for a really difficult DL live.

No, you don't need to press the right button with target support Z. Pressing the wrong button with a decent timing results in a normal, which is then turned into a good by target support Z, it doesn't matter if it's a long note or not, or even a memory appeal. Even without target support Z you don't break the combo by pressing the wrong button (since it will be a normal with decent timing), it will end the burst though. I think the extreme burst must be started with the touchpad though, but i'm not sure about it. With target support Z you could full combo a song and keep the burst until the end by only ever pressing the same button and never holding it down, and maybe you need to press the touchpad once.

But yes, trying to get as many perfects as possible on master while using a target support z to cover your mistakes is the best and safest way to score. The target support can help you through sections where you have trouble keeping up the combo. For me it is sections with lots of the same note in rapid succession, like you see them in kiramekirari master, there the target support sometimes saves me by turning a bad (which would break the combo) into a good.

mariokirby

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Re: Need some advice
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2017, 02:27:26 AM »
No, you don't need to press the right button with target support Z. Pressing the wrong button with a decent timing results in a normal, which is then turned into a good by target support Z, it doesn't matter if it's a long note or not, or even a memory appeal.

Oh, okay.  That part I didn't know about.  Thanks, for the information.

JurikoSan

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Re: Need some advice
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2017, 06:14:24 PM »
Naryoril, I sent the picture of my setup for The DL Live Keep - Out 3, since you asked for my setup, did you have time to take a look at it? Maybe I'm doing something completly wrong there idk :) Learning the best I can.
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Naryoril

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Re: Need some advice
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2017, 06:53:28 PM »
Naryoril, I sent the picture of my setup for The DL Live Keep - Out 3, since you asked for my setup, did you have time to take a look at it? Maybe I'm doing something completly wrong there idk :) Learning the best I can.

Uhmmm... Where did you send me the picture?

JurikoSan

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Re: Need some advice
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2017, 08:13:11 AM »
I attached it to my reply above all the messages :)
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Naryoril

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Re: Need some advice
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2017, 09:40:53 AM »
Ah, ok. Sorry, i didn't see it. I can't see the skills of the items, so i'll need to check when i'm back home.

Naryoril

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Re: Need some advice
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2017, 06:37:29 PM »
Ok, let me go through the items you are wearing:

Costume:
You don't have much of a choice there, since it's most probably your only costume with the matching type.

Headpiece:
The F rank tiara you are using is pretty much the worst choice you could have made. It has a very low appeal score, and the skill on it doesn't do anything, since your costume doesn't have a burst skill. Use whichever of your headpieces has the highest appeal score. you can ignore the skills on them, since there aren't items with a useful skill if you don't have a burst skill on the costume.

Body/Necklace:
Yet another bad choice. The accessory has +20 omoide as skill, which is pretty much useless, especially since there are much better skills available. It might have some limited use on a solo event, but since this isn't a solo event, you get way more points out of the drive duo skill (ドライブデュオ). Among your items with that skill, pick the one with the highest appeal value.

Arms:
Arms are usually the slot for the charge level 2 skill, but since you don't have a burst skill on your costume, there is no point in using that skill. So pick whichever bracelet has the highest appeal level. Chances are, that the one you are wearing has the highest appeal, due to the appeal +20 skill. For the Keep Out 4 event, you will want to use an item with chain bonus 100 here though. You can get one by ex clearing the first event of the いつまでもこのままで DL live.

Legs:
In general, you have made a good choice there with the chain bonus 100 skill. However, by ex clearing the first event of the アナタとノクターン DL live rewards you with an item with chain bonus 150. You should go and get that one. For Keep Out 4 you should use an item with drive trio (ドライブトリオ) here, preferably the one with the highest appeal score.


If you do this while using kiramekirari on master and with a high rank while having 5 hearts, you shouldn't have any issues beating keep out 3 and 4.

Please also have a look at the guide i wrote on gamefaqs, it has a section on skill setups and when to use them:
https://www.gamefaqs.com/ps4/730583-the-idolmster-platinum-stars/faqs/74300?page=0#The%20Best%20Skill%20Setups%20and%20When%20to%20Use%20Them
If the guide is too complicated to understand then please let me know where the problem is, so i can improve it.



And while i'm at crosschecking with the game, i quickly checked the other items:

Held note support (Z): 3 (or 5 in the Z case) times you are not punished by not holding a note to the end. As explained above, target support Z has the same effect, although through a different mechanic, and it isn't limited to just 3 or 5 times.

chain support (Z): up to 3 (or 5) times, a bad won't break your combo. Since target support Z turns bads into goods, it has the same effect through a different mechanic, and it isn't limited to just 3 or 5 times.

burst support: A normal doesn't end the burst mode. Since target support Z turns a normal into a good, it has the same effect, although through a different mechanic (i reapeat myself here), and it even works with bads.

And then there is the normal target support, which turns bads into normals, which is obviously inferior to target support Z.

So target support Z has the same effect as all other items combined, and even in a stronger version than every one of them. Yes, it costs more (1000, compared to 500 for chain support Z and held not support Z, or 800 for the burst support), but the cost is neglible, even more so if you just consider the difference. Target support Z is the only item you'll ever need once you have unlocked it.