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Author Topic: I Hate Other iM@S derived works  (Read 14747 times)

Scotty

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I Hate Other iM@S derived works
« on: September 18, 2014, 04:54:21 AM »
Any iM@S game that's not on a console, or PSP/Vita sucks. That's not an opinion. Feel free to play them, you're just a bad and terrible person.

Feel free to hate in this thread with me. Or ask questions. Whatever.
DS sucked too.

Maka

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Re: I Hate Other iM@S Games
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2014, 05:05:43 AM »
ok cool

MetalPredat0r

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Re: I Hate Other iM@S Games
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2014, 05:14:11 AM »
Any iM@S game that's not on a console, or PSP/Vita sucks. That's not an opinion. Feel free to play them, you're just a bad and terrible person.

Feel free to hate in this thread with me. Or ask questions. Whatever.
DS sucked too.

......... Pray tell, may I ask why? S:(?
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Scotty

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Re: I Hate Other iM@S Games
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2014, 05:45:43 AM »
Mobile free to play games have a design philosophy centered around squeezing money out of you. I can't get behind a game like that. Not only that, but these idols found in the mobile games don't seem as original. They're cookie cutter material, mostly designed to fill the usual niche and junk.

I honestly feel like the quality of the series has dwindled considerably thanks to CG and ML.

Maka

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Re: I Hate Other iM@S Games
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2014, 06:15:07 AM »
That's actually perfectly understandable. I thought the original post was just to start crap, but I can definitely see where you're coming from.

CG and ML don't annoy me as much as they would in any other series because... imas has always been about shaking money out of your pockets. That's why it doesn't feel as... Dishonest to me?

As for the characters, I feel like they... Are a lot flatter. Especially in CG's case. They're designed around a gimmick rather than a personality. Whether or not you're okay with that depends on your point of view, I guess. Some people will be okay with them and some will hate them. But honestly I can see the CG and ML characters getting the depth of the main idols if they stick around for 9 years like the main cast has.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 06:19:12 AM by Maka »

MetalPredat0r

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Re: I Hate Other iM@S Games
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2014, 08:12:32 AM »
Mobile free to play games have a design philosophy centered around squeezing money out of you. I can't get behind a game like that. Not only that, but these idols found in the mobile games don't seem as original. They're cookie cutter material, mostly designed to fill the usual niche and junk.

I honestly feel like the quality of the series has dwindled considerably thanks to CG and ML.

Oh. I can TOTALLY see where you're coming from, dude.

That initial post felt incredibly........."dickish" feels like the right term. As in, you pretty much said "these games are sh*t and anybody who plays them is sh*t" which is BOUND to get people to jump you on the internet.

As for your thoughts itself, I do agree about the whole mobile gaming thing. I don't play mobile phone games (besides ports of older games) because of this reason. However, as Maka said, its not as offensive because iM@S in general is kind of a money-milker in its own right. Rememeber, Namco DOES profit more from DLC sales than actual game copies sold.

As for the characters, I agree to an extent. That complaint feels more viable to CG way more than it does ML due to CG having 200+ characters and thus you're inevitably going to get quite a number of bland, forgettable characters who only rely on one gimmick to keep themselves relevant. I don't feel like that's as much of the case with ML due to having a smaller roster and giving quite a number of them actual personalities and character traits to them that help them stand out. That's what I got from the big slew of translations, anyway.

I do have one question: You say that CG and ML are causing the franchise as a whole to dwindle. How so? To me, it doesn't seem like they do much to the franchise as a whole, if anything at all. In terms of actual games, CG and ML seem like smaller side-projects that are there to pass the time between other major titles such as OFA and the inevitable 3. I honestly wanna keep this going to share our thoughts as a whole because stuff like this IS interesting to me.
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Naryoril

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Re: I Hate Other iM@S Games
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2014, 08:35:29 AM »
i mostly agree with you

And i tried out ML, but it was so boring i gave it up after a few days, there is no actual gameplay at all (unlike the Love Live mobile game).

But what's your beef with DS? The free to play argument definitely doesn't hold there, and i don't think the character argument is valid either.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 04:38:22 PM by Naryoril »

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Re: I Hate Other iM@S Games
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2014, 12:59:53 PM »
Hm. There's some good points, especially the moblie pay-to-win aspect. But then again, IM@S loves to squeeze money out of you (looking at you Shiny TV and OFA). For the characters... CG, with over 180+ idols, there's bound for bland, gimmickly characters, even some of voiced idols falls into this. They have good art style, but that's about it. ML has a more interesting cast, but the game itself is bad. For DS, is it because poor gameplay?

To be honest, I found SP and the Shiny series really boring. Also watch your tone on that initial post you made. It's asking for a flame war.


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Re: I Hate Other iM@S Games
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2014, 04:24:09 PM »
Yes.

I have no idea how DS fits into that, never really seen it outside of a few scenes on YT (I liked what I've seen from characters, though). Even less with the original arcade version. So that else we have? Mobile shit and slots? Hard to disagree for me.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 04:30:21 PM by Accoun »

MetalPredat0r

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Re: I Hate Other iM@S Games
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2014, 09:06:50 PM »
Hate to butt in so much, but I'm gonna say this. I don't care for the mobile games, in terms of the actual gameplay. I have never been a big fan of card browser games and CG, ML, and SM don't seem like my cup of tea in terms of gameplay. What I DO care about are characters. That's what got me into iM@S in the first place: the cast of characters. If there are characters that I legitimately like (which, in the mobile games, there are), then I'll give them some sort of attention like I would other characters. So yeah, don't care for the games, just the characters. And the artwork. :P

But from all this, can I safely say that the mobile games are the Base Breakers of the series? Because not just from this topic, but all over the fandom, these games tend to get the most mixed reactions. People either love em or hate em. I don't see much of a middle ground. Kinda reminds me of Sonic Lost World's reception. So is it right for me to assume that?
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DeviantProtagonist

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Re: I Hate Other iM@S Games
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2014, 09:07:29 PM »
Yeah, I'd mind the initial tone.

I've partly come to accept the money-milking of iM@S; whilst I also refuse mobile paying for derivative titles, consider me sold on the mainstream. Plus, I'm biased towards the originals because they are just that -- with the exception of Dearly Stars it feels too alienating to completely delve into ML/CG as it is. Again, nine years of activity would have this effect...

As for characters, it's yet another fickle people brought up; there's simply way, WAY too many cooks in this kitchen. While there are select idols I appreciate out of the clusterfudgicle, that issue shouldn't be so prevalent at all -- it's red flags for payment, really. At this point I'm only content with Scamco providing that one golden apple a singing voice~.

Moreover to the contrary, I don't see an issue with DS nor it's cast. I'd love to try it some time, provided I know of Japanese some day~.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 09:16:41 PM by DeviantProtagonist »
Suddenly, bow-wow-wow~. :3

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Re: I Hate Other iM@S Games
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2014, 09:39:58 PM »
I guess since this is here I'll give my thoughts as well. I gave CG and ML both a chance and did play both for months before quitting. Game wise it's not really a game honestly. The other games at least attempted some form of variety or objective change. A lot of the time in mobage is spent clicking to the point that it encourages people to make bots instead of doing it manually. Lessons, lives, events, all are done by clicking. In mobile i you can at least use the touch screen and take photos. In love live's mobage you are given a song to beat using the touch screen which gives it a rhythm game aspect. Although I understand that when CG started it was completely unvoiced. However one concept I did like from CG was letting the players have their own productions and be allowed to discuss with each other. I kind of disliked how they dropped the 765 idols after less than a year besides the occasional event card.

The next problem is more of a format that each mobage that I've seen has. While namco has been known for their absurd DLC prices you are guaranteed that item at a consistent price. There are no gacha for DLC items. With mobage everything is money based. If you want to win the best cards be it in gacha which has a low drop rate, or events which have other people spending crazy amounts of money, you are going to have to pay a lot. In the other idolmaster games you can beat the whole story without buying any DLC. DLC are just optional extra costumes and songs and since there is no multiplayer anymore you're not paying to beat anyone but AIs. Another thing is what type of game it is. This is a card game, people are spending loads of cash for digital cards. Not even real signed ones but digital ones. For some just saving the images is enough. While with a new song or costume you can use it for a variety of combinations which not all will be shared.

So about the characters. In vision 1 only four new characters were added, Miki, Hibiki, Takane and Kuroi. That was a period of 4 years. In this next 4 year period we have over 200 new idols, although honestly I don't know exactly how many due to the amount added. Overwhelming doesn't even begin to cover it. Expanding the cast isn't exactly a bad idea, but at this pace is just asking for disaster or a ton of duds. I liked before how the cast was just the right amount, somewhat large, but not too small or too large. This allowed for every character to get proper development. Right now they seem to be going for a quantity over quality approach, and this seems to be becoming an increasing trend as mobile games increase as well unfortunately. For the designs I like some of the CGs, but the ones I like are far outnumbered by not so good designs. With ML it's pretty much a fan fantasy honestly. A bunch of girls join 765 out of nowhere and are now close to them because they say so. The designs aren't so great either. Not only do they not fit in with idolmaster's style, they just look like a mess outside of that. With all of the announcements for CG and ML in the future I'm just a bit concerned about where the series is heading. I don't hate them, although I highly dislike their current game formats, but I'm not really fond of them at the moment either.

As for the other games mentioned shiny festa just seemed like a quickly made thing to give us something to do in 2012. Without that and the pachinko game we would have been pretty dry for games until OFA.
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Maka

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Re: I Hate Other iM@S Games
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2014, 10:07:29 PM »
Y'know, I did some thinking about it and I figured out why even the quirk-less CG characters feel so bland. In main idolmaster games, the characters develop VERY slowly and realistically. You go through dozens of lessons and spend almost an entire year together before Yukiho gets over her shyness or Chihaya slowly starts to accept her brother's death.

But meanwhile in CG (ML is better with this) each character gets like twenty lines or so. You can't cram any closeness or intimacy into that. Some characters develop through mangas and extra cards, but could I tell you the first thing about Ranko's family situation? What Uzuki likes to do for fun? Rin's hopes and dreams? No. Not only that, what character arcs exist are very small and resolved in just a few cards. Kanako's disbelief that she can become an idol? Nah, taken care of once you fuse her. Maybe it will change with the anime... Hopefully. But... Like... I still like CG for reasons I'm not sure of. It has that "something", and if you don't get that "something" then the games will be pretty crappy for you.

One last thing for me to complain about... THE CARD GAMES ARE SO FANSERVICEY!!! ESPECIALLY MILLION LIVE!!! I don't mind fanservice at all... I like it sometimes... But when half the cards in ML are the idols crying and blushing over being forced into situations they obviously don't wanna be in, then it jusg comes off as massively creepy and OOC when it's someone like Takane in a forced moe moe~ pose. Arghhhhh. It's one of the reasons I HATED ML for a really long time.

Also DS would have been really good if they made it a visual novel/light novel/manga (therefore eliminating the awful gameplay) and cut out Ryou's entire ridiculous ripped-right-from-a-bad-manga "IM A BOY BUT NO ONE KNOWS DUE TO INCREDIBLY CONTRIVED CIRCUMSTANCES" route. I feel like the only person who really dislikes Ryou tbh. Like... The only interesting part of him is his "secret". which has been done in 5000 awful harem mangas.

tl;dr cg is too fast-moving with character development but has a certain charm, ml's girls are good but the game is really gross and creepy, and eri and ai are great characters who need a better game someday
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 10:16:40 PM by Maka »

Scotty

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Re: I Hate Other iM@S Games
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2014, 10:11:52 PM »
In regards to the tone I set when starting this topic, it was entirely intentional.

I don't post much on here as I used to, so not many people seem to know the kind of person I am. I take a strong stance towards certain things, and have strong, blunt opinions. I also left the topic very open to interpretation, because I'd rather have the following couple of replies dictate the direction of the post. I'd rather then clarify my position. So it's not changing. People kinda understand the point of the topic now.

We're all iM@S fans here, so we all know very well how tight of a grip NBGI can have on our wallets when it comes to any sort of iM@S game. The difference between Mobage titles and the flagship titles, is the design philosophy behind them. One is set up as a game, first and foremost, in terms of gameplay and visuals. The other is set up to put out a service people can pour money into, with as little effort as possible. I'll let you decide which is which.

I know a lot of people on here got into this series thanks to videos on the internet. It's how I instantly fell in love with the series. Before iDOLM@STER on 360, I never really saw anything like it. Well thought out, visually appealing character designs, coupled with bright colors and catchy music to boot. What does ML and CG offer in that regard? Nothing. You're looking at a browser with pictures. It's pathetic.

So about the characters. In vision 1 only four new characters were added, Miki, Hibiki, Takane and Kuroi. That was a period of 4 years. In this next 4 year period we have over 200 new idols, although honestly I don't know exactly how many due to the amount added. Overwhelming doesn't even begin to cover it. Expanding the cast isn't exactly a bad idea, but at this pace is just asking for disaster or a ton of duds. I liked before how the cast was just the right amount, somewhat large, but not too small or too large. This allowed for every character to get proper development. Right now they seem to be going for a quantity over quality approach, and this seems to be becoming an increasing trend as mobile games increase as well unfortunately. For the designs I like some of the CGs, but the ones I like are far outnumbered by not so good designs. With ML it's pretty much a fan fantasy honestly. A bunch of girls join 765 out of nowhere and are now close to them because they say so. The designs aren't so great either. Not only do they not fit in with idolmaster's style, they just look like a mess outside of that. With all of the announcements for CG and ML in the future I'm just a bit concerned about where the series is heading. I don't hate them, although I highly dislike their current game formats, but I'm not really fond of them at the moment either.

You hit the nail right on the head here for me. At first, I would think back to my initial reaction of why CG rubbed me the wrong way. I thought it was because of the deluge of idols, and the shotgun approach NBGI had in order to introduce new idols in future flagship installments, and while that's still a factor, I came to a different conclusion. Hibiki and Takane's reveal was nothing short of perfect for me. It was a great way to sell people on SP, and it tied into the story. Granted, these two characters had been planned since the beginning of the series, but time and effort was put into them. With CG, NBGI left it in the hands of fans to pick and decide based off of looks alone. We never even got to hear their voices. It's a good way to alienate a ton of fans, because they could see first hand the popularity contest between all these uninspired idols, and perhaps many didn't agree with them.

I just want developers to put work into what makes them money. It disgusts me when mobile crap becomes successful. It's cheap, it's lazy, and it's exploitative.

I have no idea how DS fits into that, never really seen it outside of a few scenes on YT (I liked what I've seen from characters, though).
It doesn't fit with the points I made. I just never liked it because how they shoehorned in some shota character, and how Eri is forever trapped with those two lesser idols. It wasn't a very good game to begin with, really.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 02:46:31 PM by Scotty »

MetalPredat0r

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Re: I Hate Other iM@S Games
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2014, 10:19:14 PM »
One last thing for me to complain about... THE CARD GAMES ARE SO FANSERVICEY!!! ESPECIALLY MILLION LIVE!!! I don't mind fanservice at all... I like it sometimes... But when half the cards in ML are the idols crying and blushing over being forced into situations they obviously don't wanna be in, then it jusg comes off as massively creepy and OOC when it's someone like Takane in a forced moe moe~ pose. Arghhhhh. It's one of the reasons I HATED ML for a really long time.

THANK YOU! I'm not the ONLY one who noticed this! I don't mind fanservice here or there. I play fighting games for crying out loud. But Million Live is so rampant with its fanservice that it sometimes borders on softcore pornography! I love ML's card art, but there IS an issue if the cards I wanna have on my phone might have some people question me for possibly having fetishes for cartoon characters. The main series is really tame in comparison which is ESPECIALLY jarring.

As for Scotty, I definitely see where you're coming from. It is difficult to make connections with characters that you only see pictures of with some very few lines. Hell, there's a reason why I requested translations on Million Live bios because I am somewhat aware that it IS really hard to come up with a set character based on digital cards compared to, say, Chihaya or Yukiho who have entire routes in console games that let you interact and fall in love with these characters. Maybe if characters like Rin Shibuya or Shiho Kitazawa were in a console game with full story routes and character development, then maybe we would be singing a different tune. Scotty, I know the inital tone may not be the best, but I do welcome a thread like this as it gives us time to analyze the series for what it is and give our thoughts as well as say what's right and what's wrong with everything.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 10:21:57 PM by MetalPredat0r »
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